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Old February 21, 2012, 01:23 AM   #51
Jimro
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All reloaders make mistakes. I had to order my first collet die sleeve in 223 to remove bullets because I misread the dang scale by two grains. Lucky for me I caught the issue before I ran any of that ammo through my rifle. What was supposed to be a starting load was two grains high, and that ended up being over max listed charge.

I'm a big fan of working eyes and having all your fingers.

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Old February 21, 2012, 01:39 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimro
All reloaders make mistakes. I had to order my first collet die sleeve in 223 to remove bullets because I misread the dang scale by two grains. Lucky for me I caught the issue before I ran any of that ammo through my rifle. What was supposed to be a starting load was two grains high, and that ended up being over max listed charge.

I'm a big fan of working eyes and having all your fingers.

Jimro
But we aren't talking about mistakes (for the most part). We are talking about willful, deliberate disregard of safety precautions.


Or stupidity.

You can fix ignorance. You can't fix stupidity.

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Old February 21, 2012, 04:41 AM   #53
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After working on guns for 40 + years, all I can say is reloading caused way more problems than it ever solved.
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Old February 21, 2012, 06:11 AM   #54
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I started out reloading 20 years to save money, I didn't happen. Spent more money because I was shooting more.

I was fortunate enough that my Father-in-law, mentored me in reloading. I was able to learn the right way.

Once I had the knowledge, I tried giving advice freely to "young bucks" when it wasn't asked for. Found it to be a big waste of time. Everyone learns differently and to their own accord. Some people learn by example, some learn by catastrophic failure.

This reduces my frustration.
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Old February 21, 2012, 12:57 PM   #55
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I agree with many comments about the younger generations not wanting to learn from reading. My 16 year old Son enjoys shooting and likes to reload with me. When i get the book out and try to teach him about looking up the right powder charge, bullet weight ,how to properly set up a die, mic a case.set up the trimmer or weigh a charge he gets bored with it. All of this imformation is in the book, and the instructions that come with the tools. I enjoy reloading with him but would be worried to let him try it unsupervised.
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Old February 21, 2012, 02:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
After working on guns for 40 + years, all I can say is reloading caused way more problems than it ever solved.
I can understand why you feel that way, you're a gunsmith so get to see all the local mishaps.

A different perspective would be:

After reloading for 4 decades, all I can say is reloading solved way more problems that is ever caused. In fact, its so easy a caveman could do it.

One reloading manual is enough if one has minimal comprehension and common sense, but more is better obviously. (I have eleven myself).
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Old February 21, 2012, 03:08 PM   #57
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"I agree with many comments about the younger generations not wanting to learn from reading."

A lot of that comes from 'modern teaching'. Kids get put into groups to 'study' something and it ends up with one kid doing the learning and the rest getting a free ride to a passing grade. That kind of crap 'teaching' leads to kids that can't function on their own but don't even know it. We see a LOT of them coming on the web to get others to tell them how to decide if they need to use large rifle or small pistol primers, what kind of powder to use, etc. Even if they read it's clear they can't think for themselves. It's NOT the kids fault tho, the kids are as bright as ever but they keep slipping backwards due to our idiotic labor union/PC admistrator dominated 'professional education system' and the effects are killing our kid's futures.
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Old February 21, 2012, 05:05 PM   #58
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I am a more than 40 year handloader, in those days we didn't have a source to go to to solve our problem. Of the people that wrote Jack O'Connor, Warren Page,, Hatcher and others I can't remember, if they hadn't written about it you were on your own, you had to figure it out for yourself. I cringe when I see some of the questions posted here that have been covered countless times, you know when you read them they haven't done their home work (I call it due diligence). They want to buy today and load today without having the most basic knowledge of the ABC'S of loading ammunition. I've offered numerious times in my 40 + years to help someone start loading ammunition, their eyes glaze over when I tell them to come back after reading two accepted sources like the ABC'S of reloading or Sierra or Hodgdon reloading manual and they decline. I've seen from locked bolts to blow up rifles, I love my hobbies, I enjoy hunting, fishing, it's hard to beat a good day at the range, all of these things require you put quite a bit of time in the hobby before you become skilled at it!! William

Last edited by William T. Watts; February 22, 2012 at 11:07 PM.
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Old February 21, 2012, 05:19 PM   #59
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Was next to a guy who was shooting a S&W 629,which was literally throwing a flaming mushroom down range.After six rounds i asked him was kind of load was he shooting.He stated that he had just got into reloading,and was shooting full cases?He just took the case,dipped it into the powder,leveled it off,and then seated the projectile.
We then counseled him on reloading,and how he was lucky to not be nicknamed two fingered Louie.
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Old February 21, 2012, 06:20 PM   #60
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Don't know where I fit age wise in this forum but when I was growing up (born 1964) my fathers generation (born 1933) was being teased for not reading directions (and certainly not asking for them). I always thought it was a "Guy" thing.

That being said, while I learned reloading from my brother in law to be I probably spend more time reading about reloading then actually doing it. Then again I read almost anything.

Problem today is attention span. Everything has to be quick and flashy. My belief is modern advertising has engendered this.
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Old February 21, 2012, 07:17 PM   #61
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Most of the younger generation. I say this as a young buck to most here.(35) They seem intimidated if you show them the manual seeing how thick it is. Now if you say ok read the first 75 pages, and look at the pictures. They seem to not be so intimidated.
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Old February 21, 2012, 09:27 PM   #62
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This isn't reloading related, but it has to do with the laziness of the next gen and not wanting to read. At my workplace I bought a software program for turning cad drawings to "G" codes for in cnc's. They wouldn't pay for classes, I slowly figured how to work it by reading the book and using the help function. The other machinist that, fits into the next gen. would not put five minutes of effort into reading or learning, he had to have someone show him(and get paid for it). It cost the company $10,000+ to buy another software program(he claimed the other was no good,thats why he couldn't use it), just so they would send us to school for it.
Yes my bosses(partners) are as dumb as they come, they will believe anything he says(he is a MEGA,MEGA a**ki**er).

When I read some of these questions on these forums , I know exactly what type of person is asking it.
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Old February 21, 2012, 09:50 PM   #63
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I don't believe age has anything to do with it..I know someone that started reloading in his 60's & is on his second press. He keeps blaming his equipment. He doesn't read directions. I haven't seen him produce 100 good rounds yet. I'm trying to talk him out of reloading.
It helps if you have the temperament for reloading. It takes a lot of patience to get started correctly. Being organized is a big plus.
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Old February 21, 2012, 10:48 PM   #64
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After working on guns for 40 + years, all I can say is reloading caused way more problems than it ever solved.
Just like everything else.... A mechanic could say cars are always breaking down, a rocket scientist could say rockets are always blowing up, a cop could say the world is full of criminals.....

Reloading, like anything else, is safe unless you are, or act like, an idiot. If not for the idiots, people not paying attention, doing other things while driving, not maintaining their vehicles, etc, would we have car accidents? Very, very few.... Luckily, its tougher to get into reloading than to get a driver licence...

As for saving money, of course you save money by reloading. the number of bullets you shoot X the money you spend = cost. Your cost would be WAY higher if you didn't reload, right? Saying reloading doesnt save money is like saying coupons dont save money. You have a set amount you are GOING to spend on groceries, and by using coupons, you are able to get MORE for the same money, therefore, you SAVED money, yes?
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Old February 21, 2012, 10:58 PM   #65
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I try to be the voice of reason when necessary but I'll quit talking if nobody's listening. Some folks' hearing actually improves after a gun blows up on them. Sometimes the obverse is true. The shallow end of the gene pool sometimes needs more than Clorox, sometimes it needs to be drained.
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Old February 21, 2012, 11:12 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacaur
Luckily, its tougher to get into reloading than to get a driver licence
Check that.

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Old February 21, 2012, 11:12 PM   #67
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I read the instructions in my LeeLoader, and my scale and my powder hopper...I'm the guy that starts putting things together while the instructions are still folded up. The missus says I have A.D.D, whatever that is. Guess I'll look it up when I get time. Lucky me still have all my fingers and eyes, I wouldn't encourage anyone to do it like I did.

Best line after shooting a double charge from a friends reloads. "and that's why you should never shoot someone elses reloaded ammunition."
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Old February 22, 2012, 07:29 AM   #68
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I try to be the voice of reason when necessary but I'll quit talking if nobody's listening.

Took me a long time to learn that. Don't have nearly the same amount of anger issues now that I had back then.
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Old February 22, 2012, 10:20 AM   #69
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"I cringe when I see some of the questions posted here that have been covered countless times, you know when you read them they haven't done there home work "

Ditto. What bothers me is that many of the questions plain dumb; "I want to get 1/4" groups with 70 gr. bullets for my Remchester .223 with a Tasco 8-32x scope in Tally rings and Weaver mounts with a Walmart sling for deer hunting in SW Mexico, what size primers and powder should I buy? " Or are obviously unanswerable; "I'm loading 35.7 Gr. of H-4831 SC with 168 Gr. SMK bullets in WW cases, Fed 210 primers, in my mod. 94 .30-30 with an 18" barrel; what is my muzzle velocity and how high would I have to hold to kill deer at 450 yards?" Etc. I mean those guys aren't thinking, they just have random static discharges going off between their ears and suppose that's thinking but want the rest of us to answer such pointless questions.
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Old February 22, 2012, 10:55 AM   #70
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Kinda funny, I enjoy reloading because I'm OCD and like to be as precise as I can. Some of you may remember I had some difficulty in the begining with a particular bullit but after some great help and a better understanding of what to look for, I've has zero problems. There are some great guys in the re-loading section.
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Old February 22, 2012, 11:07 AM   #71
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Kid in my high school, a couple of years behind me, had a very well developed sense of immortality.

He thought he could do anything and everything and it would always work out for him because well, he was him.

He decided to make up some extra special super secret dove loads to shoot through his double barrel.

He just couldn't comprehend that it was something that he did (overload of wrong powder and using a 3" shell in a 2 3/4" chamber, apparently) that caused the gun to blow up and a large chunk of barrel to remove an even larger chunk of his left forearm, leaving him somewhat permanently crippled.

He just couldn't comprehend that it was his fault.
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Old February 22, 2012, 12:17 PM   #72
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You run into the same problem people in action shooting as in reloading. "I've been doing this for 30 years. I know what I'm doing." As you try to tell them about a safety violation.
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Old February 22, 2012, 01:08 PM   #73
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Don't get the wrong impression, I do reload. I always gravitated towards odd,foreign calibers because people want to sell or trade them cheap. Getting ammunition for said guns can be difficult if not impossible. BUT... You learn fast when dealing with people. Always ask if they reload first. My pump doesn't always lock up completely. Oh, did I forget to mention I started reloading and only neck size.// I bought this gun and it won't feed right. Oh, I thought I told you I used reloads.// My lever action is "Sticky" when you go to extract a fired round. Off course I use reloads, I thought I told you that./////It goes on and on. The worst offenders are the reloaders. No matter what is wrong with a gun, the answer is "Oh, you need to start reloading, that will fix it". I totally agree with the part that more reading should be done. More in the manuals and less in magazines.
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Old February 22, 2012, 01:56 PM   #74
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Well, experience used to mean something you can count on.You almost have to like reading more than reloading. I suppose this is why I have eleven load manuals and have never blown up a gun. In my early days of reloading, I would sleep eat breath bullets and loads and the articles.

Most would call it confusing to have six different books open to load ammo, with all the conflicting data and stuff, but I call it interesting. The devil is in the details and you can usually see why they load differently if you stare at it long enough.

I did have a close call which caused me to rethink my loading practices. We had bought my FIL a Ruger Redhawk 44 Mag and he wanted some of my bear loads that I load for my Redhawk. No problem, borrow his gun and run some through it and everything is fine, right?

Since these are the good powerful loads, he sits on them instead of shooting them. Then he and his family move to Florida and take the ammo with him. I get the phone call that he had very sticky ejection with them and had to tap them out with a 2X4. I had developed that load at Colorado altitude and mild temps and he took them to the florida heat to shoot them. The gun was ok but this was very eye opening for me. Even with the utmost care and consideration in the construction of the load, Murphy almost bit us in the you know what because of the unforseen factor of location, and temperature/pressure relationship. That wasn't in my manual...

Good thing we bought him a Ruger and not a Taurus eh?
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Old February 22, 2012, 06:29 PM   #75
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I think reloading and how differen't people go about it , is pretty much a reflection of life in general . The new guys always know more than the old guys . I've been reloading for about 47 years and have had no mishap other than a sticky bolt now and then , and those were in my younger days . It doesn't surprise me when people ignore advice from a qualified source because people do that sort of thing everyday , everywhere . I have been making Maple Syrup for 50 years , and am hired as a consultant now and then by folks wanting to get into the business . Some of them will actually pay me for advice that they are going to ignore , and do what Joe Blow next door is doing . Never mind that Joe has only been making syrup for a year and has burnt his pans several times and has yet to make any edible syrup . Most of these people are well educated , and smart enough to know that they need some help to avoid the potential pitfalls of the beginning sugarmaker . Inevidebly I get calls from them that something has gone wrong can I hurry over and make things right . Well sometimes it takes many thousands of dollars to make things right again . I don't get upset , I just shake my head on the way to the bank . Now a set of pans for a decent sized evaporator is in the $15,00 to $20,000 range ! Why wouldn't they pay attention to what you are telling them , when so much is at stake ?
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