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Old February 20, 2012, 02:48 AM   #26
Kayser
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300 Win Mag???

There's plenty of crazy stories on this thread, but that takes the cake. That sails right past madness into full on howl-at-the-moon raving lunacy.
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Old February 20, 2012, 03:20 AM   #27
FrankenMauser
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Quote:
There's plenty of crazy stories on this thread, but that takes the cake. That sails right past madness into full on howl-at-the-moon raving lunacy.
It sounds worse than it really is.

Take a look at the data:
Code:
Bullet Weight (Gr.)	Manufacturer	Powder	Bullet Diam.	C.O.L.	Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure	Grs.	Vel. (ft/s)	Pressure
180 GR. SPR MT-SP 	Hodgdon 	H4831 	     .308"     	3.285" 	69.0        2851 	  48,500 CUP 	73.0C 	2966 	     53,200 CUP
Maxed out at only 53k CUP.

It's true...
You can't fit enough in the case for an over-charge.
With IMR 4831, the pressures are a bit higher, but still plenty safe for most rifles.
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Old February 20, 2012, 07:58 AM   #28
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The guy was a Chemical Engineer, like me, so you'd think that he wasn't a complete idiot. Some people should not be reloading. I do believe that.
Goes to show that because you have a degree it doesn't make you smart.
My opinion is that folks that are good re-loaders have mechanical ability along with common sense and use both in unison.
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Old February 20, 2012, 08:31 AM   #29
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My opinion is that folks that are good re-loaders have mechanical ability along with common sense and use both in unison.

Not sure the reason but we appear to have growing numbers of people who have neither. We have increasingly "smart tools" yet people are going in the other direction.

Sadly I agree some folks should not reload but to think that is dangerous territory because if you can't reload are you capable of owning a gun.(?)
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Old February 20, 2012, 10:57 AM   #30
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I agree with Grandpajoe & DonP but go a step further. I believe that if people dont have the attention to detail or the mechanical aptitude to change the oil in a lawn mower, they probably shouldnt get into reloading. The people that are scary are the same ones that dont listen when you advise them on their first handgun purchase and then cant accurately tell you what they bought on recommendation of the counter clerk at the box store. They really have no inclination to gain knowledge or master a hobby/skill. Their problems continue when they fail to take recommendations on buying loading equipment or subtle remarks that they should come by and see how it is done prior to ordering $300 of stuff while missing some important tools.

I have found over the past few years that telling a people to buy The ABCs of Reloading and a new Lyman manual is the easiest way out for me. I offer them the best advice I can in the form of books that will hopefully educate them. Gives me more time for other things.
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Old February 20, 2012, 11:26 AM   #31
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Nicely put j357. I concur and I'll add that the ones we are talking about here are the ones that DON'T buy and READ the books cause they are smarter than we are
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Old February 20, 2012, 11:28 AM   #32
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On another forum -

Quote:
...wouldn't a manual just come with whatever kit I bought? I'm not too big into reading. I'm a college student, and I don't even read my textbooks.
Now, with the smilie it's a little hard to tell just how much truth is involved with this statement and how much is sarcasm.

I know the manuals are published by a reputable source (the manufacturer of a reloading product, with a vested interest in safety), but I'm not so sure about the YouTube videos that are often suggested as an alternative for those who don't want to read.

Perhaps the problem is just that simple? Nobody wants to have to read anymore?
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Old February 20, 2012, 11:29 AM   #33
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One of the issues I think is a contributing factor is the Hot Rodder mentality. You get newby's who get into shooting and firearms who look at reloading as way to hot rod their ammo. They probably feel that that since there was no shortage of extra power to be had in a small block Chevy, that ammo is similar in concept. "If a little powder is good, then more must be better." It's never much fun shooting next to those guys
Oh, and no one likes to read the instructions much these days. Not a big problem with that Ikea coffee table. It is a big deal when working with things where the boom is supposed to be a controlled & contained event.
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Old February 20, 2012, 12:15 PM   #34
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I have two nephews, both of them hate to read. Both want to reload. I pointed to the ABC's of reloading manual and my Sierra manual. I told them if they wanted to reload, they would have to read it.

"Why can't you just show me?"
Because you may learn how to do it, but you won't understand why to do it.

Only one of them (Nephew #1) has read the manuals. Only one of them has ever used my equipment to reload. The other one sees the reloading as a form of blowing things up. (Nephew #2)

When he wanted to load smokeless powder in to his black powder rifle, nephew #1 explained how it was going to hurt him really, really bad. Nephew #2 was disappointed that Nephew #1 would not let him play with Uncle Bucks gun powder.

Nephew #1 has access to my reloading equipment and gun room.
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Old February 20, 2012, 12:31 PM   #35
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While I realize that I'm a fairly young reloader (~~3 years now), I am truly amazed that anyone would consider this a "no-brainer". I guess I shouldn't be shocked, but I can't help it.

You can't fix stupid.
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Old February 20, 2012, 12:35 PM   #36
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Levels of responsibility required to gets risks down to an acceptable level:

10) Can be trusted with experimental planes
9) private planes
8) super bikes
7) small boats around big water
8) mopeds
7) hot cars
6) cars
5) climb on the roof with a ladder
4) reloading
3) having a loaded gun
2) having a sharp stick
1) standing up and walking

I think I have screwed up at least once on all the levels, but I trust myself up to the 80% level.

IQ has little to do with it. My son could do some calculus before 2nd grade, but still could not be trusted with a sharp stick or any stick.
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Old February 20, 2012, 04:00 PM   #37
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It seems that in this high tec society that so many people of all ages just seen to think that they can get around reading the book.


There was actualy a guy at Cabella's the other night asking if there was a how to reload video that he could watch so he would not have to read the book. I told him the truth. "There are a lot of videos on youtube that are quite helpful. You still need the the book for load information on the caliber, or calibers you are reloading for. The info is in the book, easy to read, and simply worded so that even a dumb janitor like me can understand. I read the basics section, then watched the videos, then I picked equipment, and components. I waited 2 weeks before buying anything."

The guy purchased a Lyman 49th, and that was it. Hopefuly he will have some knowledge of reloading before attemting it.
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Old February 20, 2012, 04:08 PM   #38
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"Sometimes you need to let Darwin take charge "

The gene pool needs some Clorox every once in a while.

It is a lot easier if the fools do it to themselves though.

Just avoid going to the range with them.

Shrapnel has a mind of its own.
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Old February 20, 2012, 04:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
The guy purchased a Lyman 49th, and that was it. Hopefuly he will have some knowledge of reloading before attemting it.
To be fair, he could have done a lot worse. The Lyman 49th has a fair amount of info in it for newbys.
It's all I had when I started. But, I had been around my father and learned a fair bit while growing up, so the process wasn't entirely foreign to me.
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Old February 20, 2012, 04:16 PM   #40
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Clark, having a father working for the air force has led me to believe that there are a few people who work with experimental planes that I would not trust with a sharp stick! I like your scale though
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Old February 20, 2012, 07:58 PM   #41
m&p45acp10+1
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Honestly I started out reading in forums, and watching youtube videos for a couple of months while I picked up brass at the range before I even seriously considered getting equipment. The Lyman Pistol & Revolver 3rd edition was the one that came in the packaged trade deal.

I read the beginner section twice then I built my bench, and set up my press.
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Old February 20, 2012, 08:14 PM   #42
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<quote>
"Sometimes you need to let Darwin take charge "

The gene pool needs some Clorox every once in a while.

It is a lot easier if the fools do it to themselves though.

Just avoid going to the range with them.

Shrapnel has a mind of its own.
</quote>

A person with 10 fingers and two eyes explaining the risks in reloading will
not be as respected giving advice as a person with one eye and 7
fingers.

All the Best,
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Old February 20, 2012, 08:19 PM   #43
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Experience can be a bitch. I prefer learning from the experience of others as an example of what not to do.

And I've made it to 10 on that previous posters list.
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Old February 20, 2012, 08:48 PM   #44
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I think there really is a difference in the way the younger generations approach learning, compared to older generations.

"Reading the instructions" seems to be on the verge of becoming a lost art. And, I think that it is a by-product of the "electronic age" products that today's kids are growing-up with. When I buy something, I want to read the manual before I start using it. It isn't just a safety thing, it allows me to learn the item's characteristics, including its strenghts and weaknesses and how to best get it to do what I want it to do. At least, that used to be the case. Now, I find that the manuals are mostly just the bare rudimentary things that a beginner needs to know to START using something, plus a pile of pretty useless "warnings" that the legal department wants to be included to cover their ***es. These manuals are only thick because they are in 3 or more different languages, sandwiched together. They are ALMOST useless.

So, most electronic gizmos are learned by experimentation and getting insights from more experienced users for "features" that you have not stumbled over in your own experimentation. I watched a nephew use a Wii game that was new to him. He INTENTINALLY got his avatar killed and shot into all sorts of "improper" targets in as many ways as he could, over and over. I asked him why, and he said that is how he learns what the game really does. When he has finished doing that, THEN he starts playing for score.

That may actually be a decent way to learn a video game. But, it is a very bad lesson on how to live your REAL life. Your body, your friends' bodies, and your reputation don't have "reset" buttons and an unlimited number of lives to lose in experimentation. Real life requires a different approach in order to be successful. But, where is that being taught to today's kids?

I think this is what we are often seeing on this forum, where somebody wants a U-tube video or "just answers" from us. They probably have never been expected to actually study something in detail in order to learn how to avoid getting hurt by it. Accidents related to alcohol and drugs seem to be other examples of the "just do it" crowd finding-out the hard way.

Trying to explain the difference to the "just do it" folks almost always falls on deaf ears. So, I will start to give advice, but, if it is not received with interest, I usually just let it go with a wish that they don't hurt anybody.

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Old February 20, 2012, 10:42 PM   #45
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I think the threads should combine

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmazur
On another forum -

Quote:
Originally Posted by from the other thread
...wouldn't a manual just come with whatever kit I bought? I'm not too big into reading. I'm a college student, and I don't even read my textbooks.
Now, with the smilie it's a little hard to tell just how much truth is involved with this statement and how much is sarcasm.

I know the manuals are published by a reputable source (the manufacturer of a reloading product, with a vested interest in safety), but I'm not so sure about the YouTube videos that are often suggested as an alternative for those who don't want to read.

Perhaps the problem is just that simple? Nobody wants to have to read anymore?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=644098

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Old February 20, 2012, 11:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
"Reading the instructions" seems to be on the verge of becoming a lost art.
I think a bigger part of that is that for some reason the media (TV shows) Is for whatever reason trying to convice us that its not "manly" to read the directions... Ive lost count of the number of times I have see a show with some dude saying he doesnt need to read the directions....

For that matter, when did it become un-manly to read a map or ask for directions? Yea, getting lost is real manly....
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Old February 20, 2012, 11:57 PM   #47
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When has reloading removed anyone from the gene pool?
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The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
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Old February 21, 2012, 12:09 AM   #48
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Are you curious, or are you really trying to imply that reloading accidents have no potential to be lethal?
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Old February 21, 2012, 12:28 AM   #49
dacaur
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its not so much the act of reloading, its what happens afterward, when you shoot it.... many a fingers been lost to reloading...
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Old February 21, 2012, 12:41 AM   #50
Clark
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The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
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