Bullseye Pistol Scoring System

243winxb · February 19, 2012, 09:36 AM

Competition between small groups can be a great teacher. But with a wide range of abilities, master to markmen, its not always possible. This Handicap system has worked for many year, allowing all shooter to compete, head to head. Great for small clubs weekly shoots.

FlyFish · February 19, 2012, 03:35 PM

Maybe I don't understand what you're saying, but why would scores over 300 lose? Let's say a shooter has a 270 average, so he gets +20 points as his handicap. He has a good night and shoots a 281, which is easily possible for someone with a 270 average, and ends up with a 301. Are you saying he loses?

springer99 · February 19, 2012, 06:10 PM

If 300 is the max. score, wouldn't any ties then just be settled on X-count?

**JohnKSa** · February 20, 2012, 12:46 AM

If you dramatically outperform your handicap it's generally presumed that you have been "sandbagging" which is a form of cheating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbagging

FlyFish · February 20, 2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

If you dramatically outperform your handicap it's generally presumed that you have been "sandbagging" which is a form of cheating.

Yes, I understand that of course. But if the handicap is based on the four previous high scores someone would have to intentionally shoot poorly for at least four matches to set up the high handicap, then start shooting well to "cash in" (which would then lower their handicap because the higher scores would substitute for some of the sandbagging low scores). Doesn't seem to make sense. And, in the example I provided, someone with an honest 270 average would be penalized for shooting a 281, which is something that happens every day in every Bullseye league I've ever been involved with.

**JohnKSa** · February 21, 2012, 12:11 AM

Quote:

...someone with an honest 270 average...

The average comes from the average of the shooter's four HIGHEST scores, not his overall average score.

Quote:

...someone would have to intentionally shoot poorly for at least four matches to set up the high handicap, then start shooting well to "cash in" (which would then lower their handicap because the higher scores would substitute for some of the sandbagging low scores).

People do that kind of thing. Yes, it only works for a little while.

zippy13 · February 23, 2012, 04:58 PM

When you have a system that gives participants a handicap based on past performance, sandbagging can be a problem. I knew a guy who's scores depended on how much money was in the purse. During the routine local shoots, he'd shot low scores; but, at significant matches, his scores would miraculously improve.

springer99 · February 23, 2012, 06:37 PM

Yep, sandbagging does happen on occasion, but if your club doesn't have a good number of shooters who compete where you can separate shooters into different classes for awards etc. , having a handicap system as 243 outlined, is the only way to get people to "jump into the water". When matches are scored only on a raw points basis, it's tough to get new comers into the sport.

243winxb · February 24, 2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Maybe I don't understand what you're saying, but why would scores over 300 lose? Let's say a shooter has a 270 average, so he gets +20 points as his handicap. He has a good night and shoots a 281, which is easily possible for someone with a 270 average, and ends up with a 301. Are you saying he loses?

Yes, a lose. This does not happen very often. If it does, its a new shooter that has picked there first H'C, making it to high. After they get there 4 highest scores for an average, its not likely to happen. The shooter that improves each month has a slight advantage over a constant shooter. A high master is still top dog, but can be beaten. Example >

The * = a WIN. From many years ago.

243winxb · February 24, 2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

If 300 is the max. score, wouldn't any ties then just be settled on X-count?

The NRA Bullseye rule book is used to break ties or if shooters agree a flip of the coin. The range office can compete if the timed & rapid commands are recorded/played.

243winxb · March 10, 2012, 11:30 AM

Anyone try it?

JASmith · March 10, 2012, 12:15 PM

We had a small group but it went truly informal about 15 years ago, and then seemed to go away about 8 years ago.

I am interested in getting it going again, but finding enough people who are interested in leadership roles is proving difficult.

Are there any groups, particularly in the San Franciso Bay Area, that are active?

Is there someone I could contact and discuss how to get and sustain a group?

February 19, 2012, 09:36 AM	#1
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Posts: 598	Bullseye Pistol Scoring System Competition between small groups can be a great teacher. But with a wide range of abilities, master to markmen, its not always possible. This Handicap system has worked for many year, allowing all shooter to compete, head to head. Great for small clubs weekly shoots.

February 19, 2012, 03:35 PM	#2
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,401	Maybe I don't understand what you're saying, but why would scores over 300 lose? Let's say a shooter has a 270 average, so he gets +20 points as his handicap. He has a good night and shoots a 281, which is easily possible for someone with a 270 average, and ends up with a 301. Are you saying he loses? __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member SASS #84900 03 FFL Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club

February 20, 2012, 12:46 AM	#4
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 16,771	If you dramatically outperform your handicap it's generally presumed that you have been "sandbagging" which is a form of cheating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbagging __________________ Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association? Check out Black Bear Flashlights.

March 10, 2012, 12:15 PM	#12
JASmith Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2009 Posts: 118	Bullseye Shooting -- Still Alive? We had a small group but it went truly informal about 15 years ago, and then seemed to go away about 8 years ago. I am interested in getting it going again, but finding enough people who are interested in leadership roles is proving difficult. Are there any groups, particularly in the San Franciso Bay Area, that are active? Is there someone I could contact and discuss how to get and sustain a group? __________________ Nevermore... http://shootersnotes.com

February 19, 2012, 06:10 PM	#3
springer99 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 137	If 300 is the max. score, wouldn't any ties then just be settled on X-count?

February 23, 2012, 04:58 PM	#7
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,281	When you have a system that gives participants a handicap based on past performance, sandbagging can be a problem. I knew a guy who's scores depended on how much money was in the purse. During the routine local shoots, he'd shot low scores; but, at significant matches, his scores would miraculously improve.

February 23, 2012, 06:37 PM	#8
springer99 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Posts: 137	Yep, sandbagging does happen on occasion, but if your club doesn't have a good number of shooters who compete where you can separate shooters into different classes for awards etc. , having a handicap system as 243 outlined, is the only way to get people to "jump into the water". When matches are scored only on a raw points basis, it's tough to get new comers into the sport.

March 10, 2012, 11:30 AM	#11
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Posts: 598	Anyone try it?