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Old February 19, 2012, 12:20 AM   #1
acb
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Need help made a mistake with primers

Anyone know what will happen if u put magnum large pistol primers in 45 acp instead of just large pistol primers did about a hundred like this before i caught it only been reloading bout 6 months could use a little advise
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:28 AM   #2
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if your powder charge is a startling load it wouldnt concern me. if you started with a max load and didnt work up to it i would either pull down the loads or dispose of them. jmho bob
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:34 AM   #3
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thanks I was using bullseye powder and start load is 4.0 and max says 4.0
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:40 AM   #4
Brian Pfleuger
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Where are you getting your load data? Start and max load for Bullseye should not be the same number. If you're looking at Alliants site, they list only one load but clearly state....


"REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.
The exceptions to this are the loads listed as "target" in the 38 Special and 45 ACP data tables."

Plus, according to Alliant's site, starting loads for even 230gr bullets in 45acp would be 5.2gr, the lowest load they list, which is 200gr LSWC would be starting at 4.1gr.

In regards to your question about using magnum primers, I wouldn't do it. Mag primers can be equivalent to a 5 to 10% increase in charge weight, meaning you're starting near max load even if you start at starting loads.
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:45 AM   #5
mehavey
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Here's why we say YMMV.

I would venture it highly unlikely you will even know the difference. 4.0gr of Bullseye is about as low as it gets.
But say again,... you were loading what amount of bullseye under what bullet?
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:47 AM   #6
kmaysob
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if i remember correctly my book shows the max for 45acp being 5.3 with bullseye. [B[/B]
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Old February 19, 2012, 01:04 AM   #7
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I using modern reloading second edition by richard lee I am usinh 230 grain lead round nose it says 4.0 start 4.0 max I just following book thats why I am asking for yalls advice
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Old February 19, 2012, 02:07 AM   #8
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Better read it again.
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Old February 19, 2012, 02:15 AM   #9
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I have a copy of Lee's Modern Reloading as well, and he's right - .45 ACP, 230 gn lead bullet using Bullseye, both the starting load and max load are listed as 4.0 gn.

I don't think it's a typo either, because both the starting and max velocities are listed as 810 fps.

Could this just be a case where they had a load that they knew worked and just listed it in the book, rather than actually developing a range of powder charges? It's almost certainly not a true "max load", because the pressure is only 13,900 PSI, and other powders listed for a 230 gn lead bullet go up to 20,100 PSI for their max loads.

Last edited by ScottRiqui; February 19, 2012 at 02:22 AM.
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Old February 19, 2012, 03:31 AM   #10
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I do not have an answer based on data.This is seat of the pants.

Your 1911 is a fine,solid handgun,but you can hurt them,and yourself.

The cartridge case has a fair amount unsupported,subject to bulging or blowing out under high pressure.

While Bullseye is a good,popular,accurate,economical powder,it is very fast.

No put down on Bullseye,no intent to discourage its use,but of the common reloading powders,if I wanted to blow up a gun,Bullseye would be my first choice.

Weigh what you stand to lose against what you might gain(if it works out shooting them.Not a sure thing)

I encourage you to not take risks.

I also encourage you to fail safe your process/storage,etc.

Now,try this.Take 5 cases,put them in a loading block (all by themselves),and double charge one.Put in 8 grs.Now do a visual check of the powder level.

Is it stand out obvious,or if you just skimmed your eyes over them as a formality,could a double charge get past you? (Now,dump all the powder out of those 5 cases)

Just for myself,not telling you,or any other loyal Bullseye fans what to do,I like a bulkier charge,that fills the case more.

If it was me,I would say it is time to learn about the inertia bullet puller.Part of your education!!

You might try calling the tech line at Alliant.
Stay safe.
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Old February 19, 2012, 04:15 AM   #11
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A look at Alliants site shows that for 230 gr. bullets you are well below max for jacketed bullets. You aren't even making starting load with that charge.

Since you stated that you are using the Lee book, I looked at my older data to see what's up since Lee reprints other peoples data. According to my Hercules manual, the listed load of 4.0 gr. of Bullseye goes with a 230 gr. Lead (target) load. Pressure with this load is listed at 13,900 psi.

Based on the loads for Jacketed bullets published by Alliant at this time (max. is 5.0 gr. for GDHP anbd 5.7 for TMJ) and the older data for lead; me personally in my own guns I would not even worry about this. That change won't raise the pressures so high that you would have to worry.

If you are still concerned, go to Buffalo Bore's site and look at their 45 ACP+P loads and their caveats that go with them. Then decide how you wish to proceed.
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Old February 19, 2012, 04:56 AM   #12
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I've used mag primers many times for the 45acp when I had a pile of them and no other use for them.I backed off my charges .7gr and many loads brought the charges back to my standard weight. I still use them in my small primered acp brass because, after testing , I found the mag primers to group more accurate(quite a bit) than using the standard(in those loads).I wasn't using Bullseye though,it is HP-38 and WSF.
As long as your at a low charge ,I would shoot them.
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Old February 19, 2012, 07:13 AM   #13
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go ahead and shoot them..your fine with them...
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Old February 19, 2012, 08:14 AM   #14
E Rick
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Lee second edition load data book

Im new to reloading, I have the same book and thought I would look up the load data for 230 gn lead bullet to see if I had the same data,and they don't even list a bullseye powder charge for the 230gn lead bullet. I've checked my book 3 times. There is data for bullseye powder using a 230gn jacketed bullet it starts at 5.0gn for might load, and 5.7 for a hot load.
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Old February 19, 2012, 08:18 AM   #15
ScottRiqui
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It's on page 671, right after the load data for jacketed bullets. Are you looking under "45 ACP - 45 Auto"?
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Old February 19, 2012, 08:23 AM   #16
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anyone her know exactly how much pressure a magnum primer adds over a regular primer. Did a search and can't find anything official. I always use magnum rifle primers in my .223 because they have thicker cups. Of course the burn rate is a lot slower for those powders

edit found this but not a link to the actual article



Here is a short summary of the A-Square test of primers in the Remington 7mm Mag. as published in "Handloader" magazine.

160 grain Sierra boat-tail, 66.0 grains of Hodgdon H-4831 and Winchester cases.


Winchester WLRM (magnum) 3045 fps, 67,600 psi

Winchester WLR (standard) 3024 fps, 64,400 psi

Federal 215 (magnum) 3036 fps, 61,400 psi

CCI 250 (magnum) 3039 fps, 61,500 psi

Remington 9½ M (magnum) 3041 fps, 59,300 psi

CCI 200 (standard) 3011 fps, 54,800 psi
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Last edited by hounddawg; February 19, 2012 at 08:30 AM.
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Old February 19, 2012, 08:25 AM   #17
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Im looking at 45 acp the do not have load data in my book for 230gn lead bullet usining bullseye powder.
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Old February 19, 2012, 09:17 AM   #18
mehavey
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We're overanalyzing this thing guys.

From Lyman Cast Bullet Hndbk 3rd (& 4th) and Lyman 48th (& 49th)

225 Lead Rnd Nose (the classic hardball shape) OAL: 1.272"
Bullseye
Start: 4.0 680fps / 10,100psi
Maxm: 5.0 815fps / 14,400psi

NOTE: Lyman's suggested Max loads for this cast bullet go from 14,400psi (w/ that 5gr of Bullseye) all the way up to 18,000psi

YMMV as before, but I cannot in my wildest dreams see 4.0gr of Bullseye suddenly jumping to exceed 18,000 psi.

Last edited by mehavey; February 19, 2012 at 09:41 AM.
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Old February 19, 2012, 09:26 AM   #19
PA-Joe
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This is a good time to advise reloaders not to trust their reloading manuals. Always check for the most recent erata sheet that goes with your manual. Most companies will issue an erata sheet within one year of publishing a new manual.

Regarding the above issue. Be careful with using mag primers and low powder. Make certain that the bullet actually leaves the barrel. Mag primers can push the bullet into the barrel and then there not be enough powder to push it out.

This is also a good time to remind reloaders not to keep more than one can of powder and one box of primers on the reloading bench at one time. You should never be in a stiuation where you can grab the wrong powder or primers.
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Old February 19, 2012, 09:54 AM   #20
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+ with the possibility of mag primers causing the bullet to "jump".My first trial loads I had some that seemed to be rather week and some unburnt powder,(I didn't have my crimp die set dowm to completely close the bell) but the ones with standard felt stronger.I figured the bullets were moving when the mag primers went off but not the standard.
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Old February 19, 2012, 10:39 AM   #21
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I went to Ken Waters Pet Load's and found two listings for rn 230gr bullets using bullseye. One at 4.5 gr listed as near max the other at 4.8 gr listed as max. So I think you'll be fine with 4.0gn and a 230 gn rn projectile.
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Old February 19, 2012, 11:15 AM   #22
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I have been using magnum primers for .45 acp loads for a while. I picked up 6 bricks of Magnum primers so cheap I could not pass it up. Besides I load them in my .41 Mag too. None of my loads are even near max in .45 acp so I have never worried about it. All have gone bang every time also.
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Old February 19, 2012, 11:19 AM   #23
Jim Watson
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Advice: Be more careful.
Your screwup did not result in unsafe ammunition THIS TIME.
There are mistakes that do. There was a long thread recently where it was obvious that different posters were talking about entirely different powders. Scary.


What I think is going on is that:
1. Lee does no actual load testing, they just reprint powder and bullet company data.

2. One of those sources gave 4.0 gr BE as maximum for a 230 gr lead .45 ACP not because it developed maximum pressure but because they were using soft swaged bullets and their customers tend to whine about barrel leading from swaged bullets loaded to higher velocity.

3. The Lee starting load is whatever one of their dippers will dip that is less than OR EQUAL TO the maximum.

That is what I THINK led to the data you have. But I don't know for sure.
Be careful, see above.
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Old February 19, 2012, 01:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Im new to reloading, I have the same book and thought I would look up the load data for 230 gn lead bullet to see if I had the same data,and they don't even list a bullseye powder charge for the 230gn lead bullet. I've checked my book 3 times. There is data for bullseye powder using a 230gn jacketed bullet it starts at 5.0gn for might load, and 5.7 for a hot load.
Just checked my Lee's book and it says the same. You should be alright to shoot them with the mag primers if you indeed only loaded 4.0 grains of Bulleye.
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Old February 19, 2012, 03:19 PM   #25
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My hornady book (#8) says with 230gr lead round nose, bullseye starts at 4.4gr at 750fps and max is 5.5gr at 900fps.....

That said, my general rule about reloading is that if I have to ask if a load is safe, its because I have a doubt, and If I have a doubt, I dont shoot it. Disassemble the bullets, you havent wasted anything but time. Bullets, powder, primers, all can be reused....
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