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Old February 8, 2012, 01:50 AM   #1
T. A. Corvus
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Concealed Carry Question

OK, so I have my CHL, in Oregon (where I currently subsist), and I'm finding all kinds of conflicting reports on where and when it is and is not legal to carry. The biggest issues seem to revolve around University Campuses and the difference between public and private venues. For example, WallMart has posted signs declaring no firearms allowed, and (before shows) many bars/nightclubs do searches before admitting patrons/ticket holders into the venue. My question is this: If I carry into one of these places and get searched, what happens when they find my Roscoe? Am I OK because of my CHL, or what? The local Sheriff has been less than forthcoming on this issue. Any opinions?
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Old February 8, 2012, 02:17 AM   #2
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The website www.handgunlaw.us has all of the info regarding your state laws. Good Luck.
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Old February 8, 2012, 02:36 AM   #3
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Do a search of your state laws, contact a local lawyer, check with you state Attorney General Office, ...
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Old February 8, 2012, 09:59 AM   #4
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The lawyer answer is your best bet, but if in doubt leave Roscoe home.
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Old February 8, 2012, 10:18 AM   #5
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When in doubt, don't. Find a lawyer and get real legal advice.
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Old February 8, 2012, 11:02 AM   #6
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I agree with the above posts. If you haven't read the law for yourself, assume nothing. And even then it may be difficult to interpret.

Oh yeah, and I'd probably fire your firearms instructor for not even so much as pointing you in the right direction.
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Old February 8, 2012, 11:27 AM   #7
Sbowling79
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That should have all been covered in your ccdw class. Unless you got your permit 20 years ago and you are looking for updates.
The way the law works here if the sign says no firearms it means no firearms no matter what kind of permit you have unless you are a police officer on duty.
Here in Kentucky if you are on private property such as a store and have a firearm and they have the correct sign posted prohibiting firearms. They can ask you to leave but there is no criminal charges unless you refuse to leave. Government buildings are different.
Your ccdw permit will not keep you from getting in trouble. Look what happened to the medical student from Tennessee when she went to New York and there was a Marine that got in trouble in New York also.
I recommend that if you carry that you know the law front and back. I am sure your state has the law published on a website.
Read it yourself and talk to a lawyer if you have any questions. Forums are a great place for answers but for something as serious as carrying a firearm I find it better to research myself.
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Old February 8, 2012, 12:03 PM   #8
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Not every state or jurisdiction requires a class or even certification in order to issue a permit to, or allow citizens to carry a firearm.

1. When in doubt, lock it in your car as opposed to leaving him at home.

2. Private property is governed by the proprietor. Its the same whether it's your neighbor's house or WalMart. You should check your local regulations on whether or not posted signs (like "No Weapons Permitted" signs) have what is called, "Force of Law". What that means is, if your state sign regulations HAVE Force of Law, that means that if you knowingly enter an area with one of those signs while armed, you are there against the law and are subject to legal recourse. If they do not have Force of Law, you are simply there against posted regulation, and will probably just be asked to leave if someone notices your weapon and has a problem with it (which shouldn't even matter because it's CONCEALED, right?). If you are asked to leave, you should do so politely and quickly, otherwise you may soon be in violation of trespassing; which is against the law.

3. I carry everywhere there isn't an armed guard and a metal detector. That is my choice and I've weighed the risks and consequences carefully. You must decide this for yourself.

4. www.handgunlaw.us is your friend.

I hope this helps.

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Old February 8, 2012, 04:12 PM   #9
T. A. Corvus
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Thanks to all for the responses. I am my firearms instructor, so the only butt I have to kick is my own. This makes the learning curve kinda slow, but you gotta do what you gotta do. The law here is vaguely written and difficult for a layman to parse (which ones aren't ). Seriously though, who can afford a Layer? I didtake a CHL class to qualify for the license, of course. Yet, with things being politically shifty as they are, no fine detail was gone into about the laws regarding venues. We did cover, exhaustively, the places where one can absolutely NOT carry, such as federal buildings, etc. WalMart's not really an issue, because I can't stand the place and I'm in there MAYBE once every twelve months. As LordTio3 brought up, being a CONCEALED carry, it's never been an issue. I just used them as an example because of a news piece detailing their posting of a no firearms sign. It got me wondering about what trumps what in the realm of concealed carry, and was wondering what your experiences have been.
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Old February 8, 2012, 04:36 PM   #10
kraigwy
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Quote:
Seriously though, who can afford a Layer?
I think the question is, "how can you not afford a lawyer" in this situtation?

Like I said, if in doubt, don't carry.

An example, I carry under the LEOSA, we come under federal laws, not state laws (with few exceptions).

There is a question that's been debated, that being the carrying on school grounds. There is the vague "Fed Safe School Act".

Not to start a debate on that, but I simply just don't know. The SSA does say "except unloaded in a locked container".

Since I don't know, I don't. I spend a lot of time going to my granddaughters Volleyball and Basketball games. Since I'm not sure, I keep a container I can lock in my truck, when I hit the school grounds my revolver is unloaded and locked up.

But like I said, I don't know, I do know I wont be in trouble for locking my gun up per the Fed SSA.

If I may add another bit of advice, terms like "Rosco", "piece", "rod" and such are a turn off to most. Not sure you would really get the advice you're seaking from many knowlegable people using those terms.

Just my opinion, and the opinion of most professionals I know of.
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Old February 8, 2012, 04:42 PM   #11
m&p45acp10+1
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Different states have different laws as has been said.

Here in Texas I have never ever seen a no fire arms sign at any of the more than I care to count Walmart stores. As for places in Texas one absolutely can not carry are Federal Facilities, such as Post Offices, and Federal Buildings. Any place that admission is required. (movie theaters, fairs,carnivals, gun shows, car races, horse racing tracks, rodeos, ect... ect...) Oh and no place where alcohol is consumed on the premisis. Bars, and clubs are deifinate no carry zones.
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Old February 8, 2012, 07:22 PM   #12
Chuck M
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You don't always have to be able to afford a lawyer. Search around, but I do know in FL there are Lawyers that fight for and represent people fighting for gun rights. With some of them if you simply call and run a few specific questions buy them, they will give you very clear answers.

Search of few in your state and give it a try man, it can't hurt.
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Old February 8, 2012, 09:12 PM   #13
T. A. Corvus
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Quote:
If I may add another bit of advice, terms like "Rosco", "piece", "rod" and such are a turn off to most. Not sure you would really get the advice you're seeking from many knowledgeable people using those terms.
Kraigwy- I never would have guessed that this was an issue with anyone. Is it because of the loose connection to gangsters from the '20s and '30s? Just curious (naturally and insatiably curious, which gets me into trouble often enough!).
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Old February 9, 2012, 10:06 PM   #14
StrangeBird1911
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Oregon law reference

good source is http://oregonfirearms.org/faq/

My understanding (guaranteed to be worth every penny you are paying for it) is that failing to abide by a "No firearms" sign constitutes trespass. (Aside from federal buildings and courthouses.) You will probably be asked to leave before being cited. Leave if you're carrying. You'll probably be OK.

One other thing: if you believe in gun rights, why not believe in property rights, and the right of a property owner to decide how visitors to his property behave?
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Old February 9, 2012, 11:43 PM   #15
T. A. Corvus
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Strangebird1911,

Make no mistake, I absolutely believe in property rights, and a property owner's right to choose what is on his/her property. But I'm not so sure that a large, publicly-traded corporation (Walmart, for example) qualifies as having a property owner whose individual rights might be trampled on by actual people who break their rules (as opposed to a corporate entity afforded the rights of a person by the Supreme Court) . I'm interested in upholding (and practicing) my civil liberties, not obeying corporate rules. I guess I'm just exploring the ideas, and wondering what trumps what, both in the world of the law and in the opinions of the forum.

Just to be clear, this is all an intellectual exercise. I don't plan on breaking any laws. I have ZERO interest in seeing the inside of a cell.

Thank you for the link. I will definitely check it out!
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Old February 9, 2012, 11:50 PM   #16
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. A. Corvus
...I'm not so sure that a large, publicly-traded corporation (Walmart, for example) qualifies as having a property owner whose individual rights might be trampled on by actual people who break their rules ...
Legally it does. But a discussion of that will be off topic, so let's not go there.
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Old February 11, 2012, 07:13 PM   #17
B.N.Real
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Unfortunately,carrying a firearm everywhere you feel you might need one to protect yourself is not a civil liberty.

One of the main rules of entering any business as far as concealed or any carry for that matter is if the business posts a sign saying-"Inside is a no firearms zone" or the like,you must obey that sign.

Because you are not required to enter that business.

Also,any federal building or government support facility to the government is most likely a no gun zone too.

But the local laws take precedent and they very everywhere you go.

It's insane how different area's laws are and you have to be very careful where you carry.
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Old February 11, 2012, 09:09 PM   #18
Don H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B.N.Real
One of the main rules of entering any business as far as concealed or any carry for that matter is if the business posts a sign saying-"Inside is a no firearms zone" or the like,you must obey that sign.
If by "must" you mean illegal, that's certainly not correct in a number of states. In my state, it wouldn't necessarily be trespassing, either
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Old February 11, 2012, 10:13 PM   #19
TexasJustice7
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Quote:
Kraigwy: There is a question that's been debated, that being the carrying on school grounds. There is the vague "Fed Safe School Act".

Not to start a debate on that, but I simply just don't know. The SSA does say "except unloaded in a locked container".

Since I don't know, I don't. I spend a lot of time going to my granddaughters Volleyball and Basketball games. Since I'm not sure, I keep a container I can lock in my truck, when I hit the school grounds my revolver is unloaded and locked up.
My last CHL class was a bit less than 2 years ago. I no longer have a need to go onto school grounds, but if one has a gun even with a permit it should be secured in the vehicle prior to say meeting with a teacher.
This has not changed according to the information I get from LEO friends I see quite often. The reason I know, I missed this question on the test because I did not think you could have a gun anywhere on school parking lot or grounds. Sporting events are also restricted places in Texas. So your are right to lock it in the vehicle as it might cost you the permit otherwise.
Of course if the school parking lot had a 30.06 sign posted at the entrance to it, one could not carry either. I try to stay up to date on places I can't carry, and try not to even go to those places at all.
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Old February 24, 2012, 11:01 PM   #20
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@ T.A im not a lawyer but i do live in oregon and cc everywhere it is legal. if a sign is posted that no firearms are permitted you must follow that unless it says chl's are exempt. if they catch you with your firearm all they can legally do is ask you to leave. if you leave you are ok. if you dont they can get you with tresspassing but that is ALL they can do. if you cc right they should never know unless searched at a club. my advice is to 1st: read the gun laws! 2nd: comply with any signs that say NO firearms! 3rd: if you dont comply and they catch you and ask you to leave just leave without any hassle.
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Old February 25, 2012, 11:11 AM   #21
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Not to go off on a Wal-Mart tangent, but I think the "No Guns" sign is against corporate policy and the local manager acting on their own. I remember reading recently where someone challenged a "No Gun" sign at a Wal-Mart and confronted the manager who refused to take it down, so he took it up a level to corporate and the next time he went there it was down. Heck, most Wal-Marts sell guns don't they? I know all the ones near me do.
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Old February 27, 2012, 07:30 PM   #22
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NRA sanctioned Personal Protection courses require a lawyer to back up the instructors. Such courses are frequently advertised in local periodicals. My club sponsors them. Our lawyer is pro-gun (he's been shot at) and terrific at discussion of fine points of self defense law in this state. See if local clubs offer these courses and you may find this is a very economical way to Q&A an attorney regarding specific CCW issues in your state.
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Old February 27, 2012, 07:56 PM   #23
Jeremiah/Az
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Wal-Mart has stated many times that their gun policy is what the state law is.

Here in Az. signs have no effect other than in bars serving alcohol. It must be a sign given out by the state. Others can only ask you to leave.

Property rights? Will they or can they guaranty mine & my family's safety coming & going? In the dark parking lot? I think not!
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Old March 6, 2012, 10:54 PM   #24
roge
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Concealed Handgun License

Here in So. Texas, all Wal-Mart Stores have a sign on door that says no firearms allowed only
those with CHL.( Not the exact wording ) but it makes it clear that a CHL holder is permitted to enter.

Last edited by roge; March 6, 2012 at 11:26 PM. Reason: incomplete post
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Old March 6, 2012, 11:33 PM   #25
roge
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Concealed Handgun License

With a CHL are permitted to enter with a firearm....( Sorry about the incomplete previous post)
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