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Old February 13, 2012, 01:12 PM   #1
Beagle333
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Sidelock information I could use

I have been reading about sidelocks and gathering what I can about the many types out there, mostly about the production percussion models. It seems that the Great Plains Rifle is the solid choice as the top recommended. The CVA line looks like the way to get into it without committing a load of funds. But all over the middle is the Thompson Center line of rifles.

So, what is the real difference between Cherokee, Seneca, Hawken, Renegade, Cougar, etc? And I see a lot of barrels and stock/lock units sold separately. Are they interchangeable? It would seem nice to have a Renegade (for example) with a .54 rifled barrel and a .56 smoothbore barrel too.

And... what is the deal with the Senecas? The .45 Seneca seems to be the highest priced of them all.
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Old February 13, 2012, 01:45 PM   #2
Doc Hoy
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Beagle...

...I have not done sidelocks for a long time but had experience with Lyman, Thompson Center, CVA and a little bit with Pedersoli.

CVA was at the bottom of the pile. They made compromises which I thought were not appropriate.

Thompson Center was better but overpriced.

Lyman was best of the three. Better wood in the kit. Better cast parts (All of the stuff I had was kit.)

I had a Petersoli Kentucky in flintlock which was better than all of the others but it was not a kit so I had little direct experience with the actual parts of the rifle.

I want to emphasize that I sold my last sidelock about four years ago and I had not picked it up in about ten years. So my experience is old.

I am no a long arm shooter but I would not mind having the Kentucky back.
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Old February 13, 2012, 02:15 PM   #3
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Talking strictly Thompson Center.

Quote:
Cherokee, Seneca, Hawken, Renegade, Cougar, etc?
Basically and I do mean basically;

The Seneca, is a fancier Cherokee.
The Hawken model is a fancier Renegade.
The cougar is a fancier Hawken.

All the above have octagon barrels that crossed between some of these models. You won't find a .54 barrel on a Seneca or Cherokee. in addition to these, there are special models of the Hawkens. The only one in production, is the Hawken model.

Now then,, in my book, the top of the line are the Pedersolis and for now, leave it at that. ....

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Old February 13, 2012, 03:17 PM   #4
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Pahoo

As I said, my experience is very dated and limited as well. But I am happy to learn that my powers of observation have not faded.

I liked that Pedersoli above all of the others too.
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Old February 13, 2012, 03:27 PM   #5
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Good call !!!

Quote:
But I am happy to learn that my powers of observation have not faded.
That is the "Sailor" coming out !!!

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Old February 13, 2012, 06:27 PM   #6
mykeal
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Another view, using Docs' as a starting point:
Quote:
CVA was at the bottom of the pile. They made compromises which I thought were not appropriate.
Appropriate or not, they could still shoot well; for the price a good way to start out. Some 'startup' guns are so bad they just chase people away from black powder. Not CVA, at least not the ones I had; they just made me want more.

Quote:
Thompson Center was better but overpriced.
Yep. Especially the overpriced part.

Quote:
Lyman was best of the three. Better wood in the kit. Better cast parts (All of the stuff I had was kit.)
Yep. Not perfect, but pretty damn good, and better than the other two.

Quote:
I had a Petersoli Kentucky in flintlock which was better than all of the others but it was not a kit so I had little direct experience with the actual parts of the rifle.
Very good, even excellent guns, high price, higher than T/C.

Seneca:
Barrel: 27” octagonal, 1:30 (32) & 1:48 (36 & 45)
Trigger: double set
Caliber: 32, 36 & 45
Stock: American Walnut
Status: discontinued 1987
Ignition: percussion

Cherokee:
Barrel: 24” octagonal, 1:30 (32) & 1:48 (36 & 45)
Trigger: double set
Caliber: 32, 36 & 45
Stock: American Walnut
Status: discontinued 1994
Ignition: percussion

Hawken:
Barrel: 28” octagonal, 1:48, except 1:66 on 50 cal deep button rifling
Trigger: double set
Caliber: 40, 45, 50 & 54
Stock: American Walnut
Status: 40, 45 & 54 discontinued, 50 in production, many special editions
Ignition: flint & percussion

Renegade:
Barrel: 26” octagonal, 1:38 (50), 1:48 (50 & 54), 1: 66 (50 deep button rifling), smoothbore (56)
Trigger: double set
Caliber: 50, 54 & 56
Stock: American Walnut
Status: discontinued
Ignition: flintlock & percussion

Big Boar:
Barrel: 26” octagonal, 1:48
Trigger: single
Caliber: 58
Stock: American Walnut
Status: discontinued
Ignition: percussion

Cougar:
Special edition Hawken, satin finish barrel, stainless furniture, highly figured wood

45 cal Seneca is expensive because it's rare. But if you think that's expensive, try to find a 36 cal Seneca.

Last edited by mykeal; February 13, 2012 at 07:43 PM.
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Old February 13, 2012, 06:38 PM   #7
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Flintlock Forever

I love flintlock. Firing time: 1/100 sec. My favorite lock is A Siler by Jim Chambers. Barrel? Getz Swamped if you can get one.
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Old February 13, 2012, 07:41 PM   #8
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The CVA's have drum breeches, some folks have ignition problems with them. I would get a GPR if possible but a good used Investarms Hawken wouldn't be a bad first gun. I used one for over 30 years.
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Old February 13, 2012, 09:37 PM   #9
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In addition to the above, TC also had a New Englander model, which had a round barrel and a single trigger and a shotgun style stock. This was available in .50 cal, .54 cal, and 12 gauge.

Another sidelock was the TC Patriot pistol available in .45 and .36 caliber.
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Old February 13, 2012, 11:13 PM   #10
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Thanks to everybody for the information. This was exactly what I needed.
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