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Old February 12, 2016, 10:57 PM   #1
Tlewis81
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Bullet to lands

Whats some of the different ways to make sure your bullet is perfectly into the lands of each specific rifle ??
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Old February 13, 2016, 10:52 AM   #2
jwrowland77
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Check and correct runout.

After doing a ladder test, fine tune it adjusting OAL. Make sure to measure from case base to ogive of bullet.
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Old February 13, 2016, 10:55 AM   #3
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I take the particular bullet, and a fired case, and pinch the case mouth to where it will somewhat firmly hold the bullet.

Stick the bullet in the case mouth at a obviously long COL, and chamber this "dummy round". Then extract it, and measure. Do this several times and you will get a basic "to the lands" measurement for this specific bullet.

This measurement will be correct for only that bullet, and must be done for other bullets with different ogives. jd
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Old February 13, 2016, 12:16 PM   #4
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I have expanders that are .001" under bullet dia and I use that on new case and I also lube inside of the neck. I'll start bullet into case with seater then chamber it, then I'll measure base to ogive with comparator. Once I get than length I'll make up another dummy rd using same bullet (I use light steel wool clean any marks off bullet) and load base to ogive .010" longer so I can see lands on the bullet and I want to feel bolt close on those lands. I may make some adjustment +/- as I don't want to jam bullet into lands.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/effects...e-cbto-part-2/
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Old February 13, 2016, 01:17 PM   #5
T. O'Heir
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Distance from, not into, the lands is a load tweaking technique that isn't really necessary for most shooting. However, it's a trial and error thing done after you've found the most accurate load.
Like jdscholer says, seat a bullet long with no crimp or resizing. Firmly held but not even close to tight. Chamber the cartridge and the bullet should get pushed into the case. That'll give you the distance to the lands. Then you start experimenting with the distance from the lands by seating at different distances. Could be 20 thou off the lands. Could be 10.
Every rifle likes a different distance from the lands and there is no formula to figure out what it is.
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Old February 13, 2016, 01:56 PM   #6
jdscholer
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Quote:
Like jdscholer says, seat a bullet long with no crimp or resizing. Firmly held but not even close to tight. Chamber the cartridge and the bullet should get pushed into the case. That'll give you the distance to the lands.
It should be noted that their will be a few thousandths discrepancy between individual bullets due to differences in tips, especially with pointed lead spitzer tips. I usually use a couple different bullets, and go with the longest measurement for my "at lands" OAL.

Guys who have a bullet comparator measuring device will roll their eyes at the inaccuracy of my system, but I'm generally OK with a =/- .002" factor. jd
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Old February 13, 2016, 02:15 PM   #7
F. Guffey
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I drill the flash hole/primer pocket of a fired case to a diameter that will allow for a cleaning rod to pass through the hole. And then I neck size the case’ after neck sizing I seat the bullet. After seating the bullet I remove the bolt and chamber the test case/transfer; after chambering the test case I use a cleaning rod to push the bullet out of the case until the bullet contacts the lands.

After the bullets hits the lands I stop pushing and then remove the test case. I use the test case to set up my seating die. I adjust the die off the case to prevent contact with the crimp portion of the die then I adjust the seating stem down to contact the bullet’ when the seating stem/plug contacts the bullet I secure the seating stem to the die with the lock nut.

Adjusting the seating die to the test case assures me I have zero off the lands. If I choose to adjust the seating die to seat .020” off the lands I use a height gage to lower the seating stem .020”. If I choose not to start over every day I can save the test case of or I can keep up with the measurement of the seating stem above the die.

Then there is that part about all the bullet hold I can get. I want the neck of the case to get the entire grip it can get. I would use neck tension but I do not have a tension gage that is calibrated in tensions.

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Old February 13, 2016, 07:41 PM   #8
old roper
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jdscholer, I read one of your post about turning necks for 22BR so I think you are pretty accurate on measuring to the lands.

I also shoot tight neck 22BR and 222AI.
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Old February 13, 2016, 09:32 PM   #9
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Hornady L-N-L Oal gauge.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570...ge-bolt-action

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479...c-lever-action

Stay safe.
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Old February 13, 2016, 11:19 PM   #10
Ifishsum
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Many bullets are not picky about distance to lands...but some are. When using that type of design (secant ogive) I pretty much use jdsholer's method from post #3 to find the distance to lands for that particular bullet, then adjust seating depth starting from .015 deeper and try different increments. I no longer bother doing that with tangent ogive designs; I measure distance to lands just to be sure I am not jammed into them at magazine length and load to fit.
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Old February 14, 2016, 08:27 AM   #11
SEHunter
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I use and love the Hornady COAL gauge mentioned above. I don't understand why (besides financial reasons) someone would still use the smoked case shoulder method when there is a tool available like this.

Just pick up the comparator attachment and insert for your caliber/calibers that goes on your dial micrometer and you have a precise measurement of your guns case length to the ogive of the bullet. If you do a lot of load development for multiple guns, it's worth it. If you only loaded for one firearm, maybe not so much but even with one gun, if you're ultra anal and want to experiment with multiple COALs, the comparator tool used with your dial is worth the cost.
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Old February 14, 2016, 09:31 AM   #12
F. Guffey
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Quote:
What’s some of the different ways to make sure your bullet is perfectly into the lands of each specific rifle??
It could be the Internet. It could be the difference in the ability to read and comprehend. It could be most reloaders are insecure and feel threatened; not me. I am comfortable with who I am.

Tlewis81 ask about different ways, I could have started with; “Let me count the ways; one, two etcetera. I did not go off on those that do not agree and choose to do things differently. There are not many tools I do not have; I do not find fault with the tool, then there is that part about me being comfortable with whom I am. I would not walk across the street to watch an ant eat a bail of hay.

Rational; that would be the reason ‘why’ I am the fan of ‘all’ the bullet hold I can get. To review; I am the fan of bullet hold; I want all the bullet hold I can get. I do not want my bullets to slip and or slide in the neck of the case.

The Sinclair/Hornady tool is nice, if a reloader can not make one purchase it. If a reloader wants to make a dummy round make one. Making a dummy round with a loose neck could be the reason it is called a dummy round, heavens knows the reloader that made it should know its worth and what it should be called.

Again; I make a transfer for a reason. I want to transfer the dimensions from the chamber to the seating die. No bail of hay, no dial caliper with adapter kits. I go straight to the seating die. Then there is the understanding of the concept of ‘ZERO’.

If I misunderstood the question; “What’s some of the different ways…”; forgive.

Then there is the other reason, for most that would be a bonus. I have pushed bullets out of cases before the bullet hit the lands. The owner/builder of the magnificent rifle asks me “How did that happen?” And I had to say “I do not know”.

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Old February 14, 2016, 10:21 AM   #13
603Country
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The older Nosler reloading manuals had a method that only required a bullet, a cleaning rod, and a fine point sharpie. It's simple, easy, and understandable. I haven't looked to see if the technique is in the newest manua

- Close the bolt
- Run the rod, with the solid patch pushing jag, into the barrel as far as it will go
- holding the rod against the bolt face, mark the cleaning rod at the precise end of the barrel with the Sharpie.
- remove rod and bolt and drop a bullet (sharp point forward) in the barrel till it lodges against the lands. Tap the back of the bullet lightly with the rod, so the bullet will stick in the lands.
- Run the rod into the barrel gently till it reaches the tip of the bullet, and while holding it in place, mark the rod with the sharpie, at the precise end of the barrel.
- The distance between the sharpie marks is the cartridge OAL that will touch the lands.
- now you can set your bullet seater die to seat to, or just off, the lands.

Be sure you have a flat faced tip on the cleaning rod for both measurements or the tip of the bullet will enter the open end of the rod and give you a bad measurement. Also, dropping the bullet into the chamber so that it reaches the lands can, with some rifles, be frustratingly difficult. I take a wooden pencil, double up some tape, stick it to the eraser, and stick the bullet base to the tape and use that way to put the bullet against the lands.

The method works fine, unless you need the absolute umpteenth in precision of measurement. And unless you don't have a fine point Sharpie, you don't need to buy anything.
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Old February 15, 2016, 09:09 AM   #14
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The down side of my method, and any method where you mechanically engage the bullet into the lands, is that different pressure used to force the bullet ogive into the lands will change the measurement. Especially with long, gently tapered ogives.

I run into some bullets that about drive me nuts trying to get a consistant reading, and others that are a piece of cake.

There would be a considerable difference in f guffy's method, and mine with the same bullet. I guess I'd call mine a "at lands" measurement, and his a "jam length". Either would serve your purpose to find a reference point to work from. jd
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Old February 15, 2016, 09:43 AM   #15
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The method described by 603country certainly works well for practical purposes. Using a dowel rod rather than a cleaning rod may be more satisfactory however and easier to mark with a pen or pencil. For the initial mark make sure the rifle is cocked to prevent the firing pin from protruding and giving an incorrect marking position.
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