The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 6, 2012, 07:46 PM   #1
MrDontPlay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Posts: 587
Before I proceed...

This is my first day reloading. I'm loading up some hornady 158gr JHP 38s. I'm to the bullet seating step and my brass length was right and my OAL is right but the bullet isn't down to the "ribbed" part where I thought it should be. Also I have a lee 3 die set that has no crimp die. It gave instructions for crimping with the seating die but I didn't really understand them. Does this look normal?

__________________
Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.
MrDontPlay is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 08:34 PM   #2
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
Looks like it needs bumped deeper to me. Seat it to the middle of the cannelure. To crimp you remove the seating stem or have it so far up that it no longer contacts the bullet, then raise the ram with a cartridge on it all the way up and then screw the die down until you meet the case and this is the point where you go 1/4 turn or less until you like your crimp. Usually 1/4 turn does it for me.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 08:35 PM   #3
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 4,537
Yes that looks normal, but it is a 357 Mag case not a 38 Spl. So you may have some problems.

Jim
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Jim243 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 08:38 PM   #4
MrDontPlay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Posts: 587
It's 38 brass for sure and the OAL is right.
__________________
Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.
MrDontPlay is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 08:49 PM   #5
dacaur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2010
Posts: 733
if it was a .357 mag case and his OAL was right for a .38 special the bullet would be seated 1/8" too DEEP, so i would say its safe to assume that the guy can read a headstamp...

That said, WHAT bullet is the OAL length right for? because a hollowpoint gets seated to a shorter OAL than a roundnose bullet, so if you are not looking at load data for that EXACT bullet, it might not be right. If I cant find data for the exact bullet i'm using, i find one that looks the same... you cant substitute RN data for a HP bullet of vice-versa...
dacaur is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 09:05 PM   #6
MrDontPlay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Posts: 587
I'm sure it's the right bullet. Hornady JHP #35750.
__________________
Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.
MrDontPlay is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 10:00 PM   #7
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 4,537
COL should be 1.450 Hornady 158 grain XTP - did you trim the case? Case trim lenght should have been 1.145

Jim
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Jim243 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 10:17 PM   #8
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,310
Do they chamber in the cylinder of your gun? If so then seating to the canulure in the bullet will not hurt the round, though a heavier crimp may not be needed if you are not loading at maximum.

The good part is that .38 Spcl is one of the easiest rounds to reload. It is also one of the most versatile as far as bullet shapes, weights, and styles.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 10:17 PM   #9
Tim R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2004
Location: God's side of Washington State
Posts: 1,601
OAL's can be adjusted a little. Unless you are using the exact same bullet your data is using there might be a need for some variation. The bullet appears it needs to be seated a little deeper and the case mouth at the cannelure. I like putting the case towards the upper line of the cannelure so when it's crimped it ends up in the middle of the cannelure.

There is always a little confusion by new reloaders how much crimp to add. 38 Spl is not a heavy recoiling round. I doubt you will suffer any bullet movement due to recoil. I would add just enough crimp to take the bell out and ever so slightly bend the case mouth to the cannelure.
__________________
God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.
Tim R is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 10:42 PM   #10
MrDontPlay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Posts: 587
My book said 1.480 for the OAL. The brass was also in spec. Won't seating the bullet farther increase pressure? I'm running 4.8gn of unique.
__________________
Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.
MrDontPlay is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 10:54 PM   #11
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,310
As long as you are not running a near to max load, seating a few thousandths of an inch deeper in a .38 Spcl. case should not cause an unsafe spike in pressure.

Personaly I woul not worry about the cannulure. If they chamber, and shoot to Point Of Aim I would stick with what is working.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 10:55 PM   #12
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,822
That there is either THE longest .38Spec case or the narrowest thumb on an adult human male I have ever seen.

Pics can be deceiving, I know..... but I have tiny hands, and my thumbs don't cover just half a .38 special case......
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/

Last edited by jimbob86; February 6, 2012 at 11:16 PM.
jimbob86 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 11:04 PM   #13
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
Does the large amount of "unused" space inside a .38 Special case render it less susceptible to pressure spikes from varying the bullet depth compared to some other calibers? When I'm loading 148 gr DEWC, some of my recipes suggest an OAL of 1.18", while others say to seat the bullet flush with the case mouth (1.155") It doesn't seem to make much of a difference either way in terms of accuracy or felt recoil.
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 11:14 PM   #14
Jim243
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2009
Location: Just off Route 66
Posts: 4,537
Quote:
My book said 1.480 for the OAL.
That's the problem, your book!!

Try Hornady 8th Edition page 918 you might get it right.

Jim
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Jim243 is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 11:35 PM   #15
David Bachelder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2011
Location: Trinity, Texas
Posts: 632
The correct coal for the hornady 155gr xtp is 1.455", according to Hodgdon load data.
__________________
David Bachelder
Trinity, Texas
I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06
David Bachelder is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 11:45 PM   #16
MrDontPlay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Posts: 587
I'll take a look at some other data and compare tomorrow. I can always press them down some more. Thanks guys.
__________________
Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.
MrDontPlay is offline  
Old February 6, 2012, 11:58 PM   #17
Archie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2000
Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Heartland!
Posts: 2,096
I peeked.

I have Hornady 8th Edition before me as I type.

For .38 Special, the Hornady 35750 HP-XTP is seated to the crimping groove. The Hornady book shows a C.O.L. of 1.450".

However, this book also shows 4.8 grains of Unique as the maximum charge for normal range pressure (i.e., non '+p') loads. Starting with a high end load is normally not recommended. You can probably get away with it without much danger, but it's not recommended.

To answer your question, yes, seating the bullet deeper will reduce the burning chamber volume and therefore increase chamber pressure. However, since Hornady designed this bullet for use in both .38 Special and .357 Magnum, AND publish loads for this bullet in both calibers AND publish no special instructions about not seating to the cannelure in either round, I wouldn't sweat that OAL thing. (Hornady does publish special instructions about other bullets in the .357 Magnum; so they do that sort of thing when they see fit.)

I believe in crimping revolver rounds as part of the loading process. I have Lee Factory Crimp dies for most of my revolver rounds. It does take up a separate step in the process, but I think it worthwhile. A good crimp does two things for a revolver round; it holds the bullet in place when the revolver recoils - which may or may not be a serious matter - and a good crimp holds the bullet in place when combustion starts and gives a more uniform and cleaner burn to the powder. At least, that's how it seems in my experience.

At the very least, one must remove enough belling to allow easy chambering of the round.

I would suggest you load a few more of this combination WITH A STARTING LOAD of Unique and make sure they fire without incident prior to shooting up these heavier loads.
__________________
There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus.
Archie

Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

Last edited by Archie; February 6, 2012 at 11:59 PM. Reason: Hit wrong button on computer.
Archie is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 12:03 AM   #18
dacaur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 16, 2010
Posts: 733
according to hornadys reloading manual #8, 1.450" is the correct OAL for that bullet (#35750) in .38 special. thats why its important to get the info on the exact bullet from the MFG......
dacaur is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 12:20 AM   #19
MrDontPlay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Posts: 587
My Lyman book has a starting load of 4.7 and a +p load of 5.2. I guess I thought I could trust it.
__________________
Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.
MrDontPlay is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 12:32 AM   #20
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
Reading a bunch of different loading manuals always reminds me of the joke "A man with two wristwatches can never really know what time it is."

What's particularly frustrating is when the starting loads from one book are above the "do not exceed" loads from another book. That always leaves me with a "what the hell do I do now?" feeling.
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 12:37 AM   #21
Archie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2000
Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Heartland!
Posts: 2,096
Loading books...

Will make one crazy, Mr. Don't Play.

Okay, Scott Riqui beat me to it. I already wrote this.

I have the latest Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon, Speer and Vitavourhi loading books on my shelf. They are next to some older books by the same companies and some others.

They will make you crazy because what one book lists as the beginning load, another will list as the absolute-don't-exceed-go-back-you-fool maximum load. When one starts examining the fine print, one finds some components are different. Different brand of bullet, different type (e.g., swaged or cast) of bullet, different type of primer, different firearm or test barrel and so on. Not to mention different types, manufacturers or styles of pressure test equipment.

Your Lyman book is excellent. I have one and refer to it often. I just happen to have the Hornady book close this time.

One should always begin low and work up, noting if the firearm objects in any way. This would include difficult extraction or ejection, what seems to be excessive recoil, damage to cases, the top strap of the revolver coming off and so forth.

Seriously, most 'overloads' will not cause a handgun or rifle to 'explode'. What they will do is to wear your firearm out quickly. And usually they don't shoot well, either.

If your loads conform to the Lyman description, you are probably all right. As I said previously, it's probably not a dangerous load at all.

Lord knows the first time I fired one of my own reloads I flinched so hard I'm not sure I hit the butts (thinking, "Did I do this right? Am I sure?"). But, nothing blew up and I continued. So will you.
__________________
There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus.
Archie

Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/
Archie is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 12:45 AM   #22
ScottRiqui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 2,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie
One should always begin low and work up, noting if the firearm objects in any way. This would include difficult extraction or ejection, what seems to be excessive recoil, damage to cases, the top strap of the revolver coming off and so forth.
That's hilarious. Reminds me of the bolt torque recommendation "tighten it 'til it strips, then back it off a quarter-turn."
ScottRiqui is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 11:02 AM   #23
praetorian97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 9, 2011
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 455
MrDontPlay,

I've have this same issue with .223. Book says seat to .### but the bullets cannelure (Groove you can see) was above the lip of the casing. Just doesn't look right.

I seat the bullet down to the cannelure and have zero issues. With running a mix of head stamps the depth my die seats at is slightly varied. I adjust to a "happy middle".

Ive made about 3000 .223 rounds this way and have no issues.
praetorian97 is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 05:15 PM   #24
MrDontPlay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2010
Posts: 587
I think I'm going to press them down another.20
__________________
Someday I'll be good enough to know if a gun is accurate or not.
MrDontPlay is offline  
Old February 7, 2012, 05:27 PM   #25
243winxb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2011
Posts: 982
You crimp into the bullets cannelure, this set the correct COL Set bullet deeper from what you have in the photo.
243winxb is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11822 seconds with 7 queries