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Old January 31, 2012, 09:46 PM   #26
KyJim
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If unable to use hollow points for some reason (illegal), then you may want to consider Federal Expanding Metal Jacket rounds. They generally don't expand as well as hollow points but do see some expansion. Obviously, caliber and weapon would dictate whether to use this or any other specific loading.
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Old January 31, 2012, 09:58 PM   #27
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If you can't use the fancy store bought hollowpoints, then the choice is clear. Lead Semi Wad-cutters (LSWC) in big bore caliber and at moderate speed.
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Old January 31, 2012, 10:18 PM   #28
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Big heavy flat nosed hard cast SWCs. Elmer knew what works.
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Old January 31, 2012, 10:43 PM   #29
Super Sneaky Steve
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LSWC for me. They kill just fine and they are reliable through barriers, thick clothing and they break bones when struck.

Being cheaper I get to practice with them often too.
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Old January 31, 2012, 10:47 PM   #30
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It goes without saying, but be sure whatever you choose, your guns will function reliably. Some semis don't like wad cutters.
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Old February 1, 2012, 04:00 AM   #31
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So the LSWC seem popular, but the first chink in the armour is that my 9mm is a Glock and I believe they don't get on with lead bullets.

I guess a Jacketed flat nose would be next!
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Old February 1, 2012, 04:15 AM   #32
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Jacketed and plated semi-wadcutters exist. I'm not sure how available they are in 9mm, but they are out there.

Anything with a flat nose is going to be your next best bet after hollow-points.
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Old February 1, 2012, 04:45 AM   #33
Edward429451
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Sounds like a good reason to buy a new gun then.

Actually, my friend has an XD9 and I have no 9mm mould so we are trying to get my .357 158 gr LSWC to run in it. It's only a little heavier than the 147's that is ok in 9mm so I think we will work it out.
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Old February 1, 2012, 05:47 AM   #34
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Old Grump, you took the almost my exact words from my key board,as well as your Signature line.
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Old February 1, 2012, 06:27 AM   #35
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Thanks for the correction all. Alzheimer's has taken some of my memory.
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Old February 1, 2012, 07:22 AM   #36
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Are there really places where hollow points are illegal? This defies all logic to me.
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Old February 1, 2012, 07:48 AM   #37
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Quote:
Are there really places where hollow points are illegal? This defies all logic to me.
Maybe not illegal outright, but heavily regulated. I believe NJ has some pretty serious regulations about them. And like most gun laws, they do indeed defy all logic.
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Old February 1, 2012, 07:44 PM   #38
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Non-JHP defense loads for handgun calibers....

I agree with Jimbo.
For most common semi auto calibers(9x19mm, .40, .380acp, .45acp), I'd buy factory made rounds like the Federal Guard Dog EFMJ, the Corbon PowRball or maybe a frangible/exotic load like the TAP, MagSafe or Glaser Safety Slug.
Hornady's new Critical Duty line in .40S&W & 9mm look great too but it's rare on the US market as of 02/2012.
+P milspec FMJ rounds could work also but I'd buy a PowRball or EFMJ first.
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Old February 1, 2012, 08:08 PM   #39
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http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...un.aspx?id=936
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Old February 1, 2012, 08:45 PM   #40
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45 fmj is an excellent choice. In fact it is my standard self defense load.

38 spl/357 a holow base wad cutter. Oops I loaded them upside down.

When loaded in this manner, they aren't real accurate but they expand dramaticly. I recovered one that had turned into a thin lead disk almost an inch wide and very sharp. it was kind of like getting hit with Odd Jobs Hat.
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Old February 2, 2012, 03:00 PM   #41
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So, I've decided to broaden my expereinces with ammo. At least from a shooting point of view, even if it is not my SD choice.

The shopping list will be some of my standard Barnaul 9mm 115gr, and now a box of 9mm 123 gr and some subsonic 158gr. All FMJ, and all fairly round etc. The 158gr is the least pointed, but also the slowest...

We'll see tomorrow at the range!
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Old February 2, 2012, 04:15 PM   #42
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Make sure you try some 44 special or 44 mag target loads for the "blinky" problem in the other post...
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Old February 2, 2012, 04:24 PM   #43
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I'll be keeping an "eye" on Mr Blinky tomorrow. However, I'm giving the Ruger a rest for this next trip: strictly autoloader tomorrow!!

Fortunately, my range do sell .44Spl and, yes, it makes a heck of a difference: my redhawk has similar recoil with those as my Glock does with those 44. Spls!

Very nice to shoot: hard to believe the ballistics are not far off .45ACP!!
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Old February 2, 2012, 06:20 PM   #44
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Semiwadcutters for revolvers, and ball ammo in 45. That's what I'd do. I carry SWC's in my revolvers fairly often.
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Old February 3, 2012, 06:19 AM   #45
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Well, I tried Fiocchi 158gr Subsonics, Magtech 147gr Flat nosed FMJ, Fiocchi 123gr FMJ, and 115gr Barnaul FMJ (my usual, range-supplied ammo).

I felt little difference between the 115 and 123 gr rounds, and little difference between the 158 and 147gr rounds.

Of those two pairs, I actually found the heavier ones more comfortable to shoot: less recoil, it seemed. If I had to choose between the two, I'd say the subsonics were most comfortable of all.

For practice purposes I'll probably stick to the 115gr range ammo, or buy the 115gr Fiocchi version at €170 per 1000 (bulk price, otherwise .22€c per shot). For any carry purposes I'll probably stick to those Subsonics for now and consequently shoot them now and again, but at €36 for 100!!
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Old February 3, 2012, 07:23 PM   #46
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If not hollow-points, then what ammo for SD?
H&E or Willie Peter.

But if you can't find any of that use the largest caliber round you can control and SWC lead bullets.

A .44 with a 200 grain lead simi-wadcutter at 800 fps is not bad.

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Old February 3, 2012, 09:46 PM   #47
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.44 Spl.

I'm all in on the Willie Pete! That'll fryém good.
What I have been fooling with the last few weeks is the .44 Spl., in a 5-shot, lightweight format (2" Bbl).
So far, If stoked with 240 gr. SJFP using a spooky load of A 2400 in a Charter Arms Bulldog gets me .45 ACP peformance, without draggin' down and old man's pants.
Everyman makes choices in life...YMMV.
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Old February 3, 2012, 10:01 PM   #48
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If you CAN'T use hollow points see if you can find some of the EFMJ ammo, barring that, maybe a lead semi wadcutter.
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Old February 3, 2012, 10:10 PM   #49
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Non- HP
38spl. LSWC 148gr
44Spl. LSWC 240gr
45acp.LSWC 200gr
45acp in a semi 230gr. Ball
40S&W LTC 180gr

These work..
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Old February 6, 2012, 09:12 AM   #50
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I've read this thread with full and close attention.

I live in a country with laws stupid enough as to forbid the use of ANY expansive ammo except for especially authorized law enforcement specialties, that means, tactical units. Regular patrol officers don't get them, and they're forbidden for civilians or off-duty cops. Regulations seem to care much more about the person being shot (the bad guy) rather than on the one defending him/herself or bystanders.

Looks like a semijacketed flat nose would be the only option for me for my off-duty pistol, since FMJ is all I can use at work.
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