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Old February 3, 2012, 10:51 PM   #76
JohnKSa
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And with all due respect Mr. Meyer And Fiddle, it doesn't change the fact that they were doing the right thing.
It does if they end up killing or injuring the wrong person because they intervened in a situation that they didn't understand.

The officers who killed the Good Samaritan with a choke hold certainly did the wrong thing even if their actions may be understandable and perhaps even legally justified.
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So don't help someone in their greatest time of need? Turn a blind eye?
This is a false dichotomy/false dilemma. In a false dilemma, the debater provides some outcomes or courses of action and makes it seem that they are the only choices when, in reality, there are other possible outcomes or courses of actions.

The choice is NOT between doing nothing/turning a blind eye versus intervening with deadly force. There is a virtually infinite continuum of responses between those two extremes.
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Old February 3, 2012, 11:12 PM   #77
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This is a false dichotomy/false dilemma. In a false dilemma, the debater provides some outcomes or courses of action and makes it seem that they are the only choices when, in reality, there are other possible outcomes or courses of actions.
If you were allowed an infinite amount of time to run every possibilty in step-by-step fashion. But can you assume you will be afforded the luxury of time? Lady or the Tiger.
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Old February 3, 2012, 11:43 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Nitesites
f you were allowed an infinite amount of time to run every possibilty in step-by-step fashion. But can you assume you will be afforded the luxury of time?...
Nonsense. You may not have much time, but that doesn't mean you automatically won't be able to exercise a modicum of good judgment. The fundamental error, that can doom one to failure, is the entrenched belief that the only appropriate response is to charge in to the rescue with guns blazing.
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Old February 3, 2012, 11:48 PM   #79
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For one thing, I don't believe in "guns blazing". For you to say such is insulting and low brow.
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Old February 3, 2012, 11:51 PM   #80
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I have had one such experience, but I had no gun, and was only 20 at the time, so could not have had a permit in my state anyway.

But I ran to what I thought was a mugging in progress, on a downtown street.

It actually turned out to be a domestic assault between a homeless husband and wife.

Being in the middle of that was not fun... but if I saw a guy knocking a woman to the ground and kicking her like that again, I'd be right back in the middle.

It ain't a good feeling when the voice behind you says, "Don't hurt my husband!" Luckily, I didn't get stabbed.

She opted to leave with him, too.
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Old February 3, 2012, 11:53 PM   #81
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Second, I don't recollect ever condoning such behavior. Especially using those words.
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Old February 4, 2012, 12:09 AM   #82
Frank Ettin
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...For one thing, I don't believe in "guns blazing"...
Then exactly what are talking about? You have accused the others in this thread of indifference (post 65):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitesites
...So don't help someone in their greatest time of need? Turn a blind eye?...
But not a single person in this thread has advocated anything like that. All have been discussing the importance of assessing what is happening and the range of responses that might be appropriate to the situation.

Do you agree with that or not? And if you don't agree, exactly what do you think people should do?
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Old February 4, 2012, 12:33 AM   #83
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And yet again I acquiesce.
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Old February 4, 2012, 09:23 AM   #84
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Be weary when interviening in a situation you do not know. When I was young it was very costly to one of my uncles.

We were at a Taco Bell late on a friday night in the drive thru. We saw the scene of a man who had grabbed a woman by the arm, and slammed her on the car. She was yelling for him to let her go. My uncle grabbed the shotgun off the window rack of the truck and went to help the lady.

Within a couple of seconds there was a parking lot full of police cars, and my uncle was at gun point. He was arrested, and charged with a slew of charges. Turns out the man was an undercover narcotics officer, and woman had made a sale to him. He was arresting her. It just took a bit for the back up to arrive.

All charges against my uncle were dropped. It still cost a whole lot of money for bail, and the attorney.

Oh and his shotgun was returned.

It could have turned out very badly, the respoinding officers showed a lot of restraint, or else the story would have been tragic.
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