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Old January 26, 2012, 09:44 PM   #1
Colorado Redneck
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22-250 bolt closes with difficulty

My Savage 12 in 22-250 has several thousand rounds through it. Some of the cases have been loaded multiple times. Some of the reloaded rounds are difficult to close the bolt, and every now and then a round will not chamber properly---ie the bolt will not close.

The other evening I neck sized 125 cases that had been tumbled clean. Trimmed and chamfered etc. Tried to run the empty cases through the Savage. About 10% the bolt closed real hard. Took those 15 cases down, lubed them and full length sized them, checked the trim length, and tried them all in the rifle again. No difference. The neck sizer is RCBS and the full length sizer is Hornady custom grade New Dimension.

On the cases that the bolt is really tight, the shoulders have a slight imprint of the chamber left in the brass.

Any ideas? I am wondering if the bolt may be out of whack. When this first happened I was sure it was a filthy chamber. I have cleaned the chamber really well but that has not cured the problem.

Help please!?
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Old January 26, 2012, 10:06 PM   #2
mehavey
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And you ran the FL die down to full contact w/ the ram/shellholder -- and then 1/8 - 1/4 turn more?
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Old January 26, 2012, 10:06 PM   #3
243winxb
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The FL die needs an extra 1/8 turn down after contact with the shell holder. Other wise, check the diameter of the web area. If it has expanded from over pressure, brass can be hard to chamber. FL dies do NOT size all the way to the web. If a loaded round thats has been FL sized will not chamber, check the diameter of the neck. Brass flows forward into the neck. Could be to large to chamber. See SAAMI for measurements > http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC...0Remington.pdf

Last edited by 243winxb; January 27, 2012 at 10:20 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old January 27, 2012, 03:21 AM   #4
mrawesome22
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Shoulder needs bumped back.
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Old January 27, 2012, 04:08 PM   #5
brickeyee
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Brass work hardens every time it is fired.

Neck sizing does NOT touch the shoulder, and eventaully the brass is both hard enough and not moving back enough after firing so it wil not cahmber again using only neck sizing.

Their are special dies that only touch the shoulder (often called 'bump' dies) without altering the neck size.

You can also use a carefully adjusted full length sizing die to just move the shoulder back enough to allow for chambering.
0.002 or so of shoulder bump is all you should need.

The brass may benefit from some annealing at this point to soften the neck and shoulder.
Annealing needs to be done correctly though, since dead soft necks and shoulders are not desirable either.

It is NOT a case of 'if a little is good, do a lot.'

If the primer pockets are still tight the brass may have a decent life still to give.
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Old January 28, 2012, 10:30 AM   #6
Kevin Rohrer
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I am also thinking the shoulder needs to be bumped back a smidgen.
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Old January 28, 2012, 10:49 AM   #7
jepp2
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Are you measuring how much you are setting the shoulder back when you FL size?

I used to set my dies by the advice of 1/8, 1/4 or whatever after the die contacts the shell holder. Due to the manufacturing tolerances of the dies and in conjunction with the shell holder, you have no idea how much you are actually setting the shoulder back.

Once I started measuring and determine where the shoulder needs to be (using a tool like the L. E. Wilson gage or Hornady Lock-N-Load comparator I found out how inadequate the previous practice was.

A hard to close bolt handle is the result of the shoulder needing to be moved back unless your cases are excessively long. When you full length size you are wanting to move the shoulder back 0.002" for a bolt action. Now just look at how much 1/8 rotation is in shoulder movement.

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Old January 28, 2012, 10:57 AM   #8
mehavey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OP
The other evening I neck sized 125 cases that had been tumbled clean. Trimmed and chamfered etc. Tried to run the empty cases through the Savage. About 10% the bolt closed real hard. Took those 15 cases down, lubed them and full length sized them, checked the trim length, and tried them all in the rifle again. No difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Many Posters
"...bump the shoulder back..."
We all agree that the problem is likely excessive shoulder length from repeated neck-size-only reloadings. Several have suggested that the OP eliminate press spring by screwing the FL die down 1/8 turn past first contact with the ram/shellholder.

The OP should do that, and let us know if it solves the problem (or not )
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Old January 28, 2012, 09:16 PM   #9
Colorado Redneck
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Full length die

I may have the dies adjusted incorrectly. However, Hornady says:
"1. Raise the ram to the highest position without camming over.
2. Thread the full length die into the press until the base touches the thread holder.
3. Tighten the lock ring against the press and tighten the set screw."

That is just how I set the press and die up. Just re-read the instructions and then checked the set up in the press and the press cams over very lightly, set up this way.

So I tried setting things up like the RCBS instructions, ran 3 of my tested and rejected cases through just now. The press cammed over with difficulty which tells me that the brass was getting some reshaping. Then tried them in the rifle and they chambered perfectly. Evidently I don't comprehend very well sometimes. Maybe I need to take a remedial reading class sometime.

Thanks to all of you that responded. Sorry it took so long to get back here. Some days are busy, and some evenings are tired.
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Old January 28, 2012, 09:27 PM   #10
mehavey
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You don't need to adjust the die past first contact so much that full stroke on the ram is difficult, rather just enough (that ⅛ turn extra) that "cam over" has some feel to it. That way you know the die has truly bottomed out on the shellholder even under the stress of resizing that last bit of case.

Quote:
Evidently I don't comprehend very well sometimes. Maybe I need to take a remedial reading class sometime.
Welcome to the club , and don't worry about it.
The instructions were probably written offshore somewhere and mis-translated back to English.

Last edited by mehavey; January 28, 2012 at 10:22 PM.
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Old January 28, 2012, 09:34 PM   #11
mrawesome22
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That insures they fit in virtually ever rifle cut to saami specs.

If you want a custom fit and long brass life you'll need some tools like the hornady gauges or rcbs precsion mic stuff.
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