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Old January 29, 2012, 01:26 AM   #26
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaska444
...Once again, what disability related disparity of force issues are part of case law already. Is it state by state, or are there general parameters already settled case law. Going back to Pax and the egg shell skull theory, I have yet to see a direct application of that sort of thinking to any specific self defense cases. That is the question, not simply for dialysis patients. In other words, as it would apply to the disparity of force issue which I know is settled law. How does a proven disability, (I am certified as 100% disabled legally right now) apply to the disparity of force issue?...
What you want is an extensive, fully researched legal opinion. I've certainly done that sort of thing in the course of my practice. Doing a thorough and proper job, which if I undertook the the job I'd be ethically obliged to do, would involve a great many hours of careful research.

At my normal consulting rates, it would be a fairly expensive project. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to do it here, for free. If you really must have a definitive answer, you will probably need to hire a local lawyer who is familiar with these sorts of issues and pay him for a well researched opinion.
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Old January 30, 2012, 04:57 PM   #27
dyl
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No specifics to give to you (no cases). But I am just having a difficult time thinking of a scenario when the situation would be so ambiguous that the defining key would be that you are a dialysis patient. Attacker/s approach at night, recieves verbal warnings, defender moves off line /retreats yet attacker follows/pursues and shows intent, defender's weapon drawn, attacker ignores further warning. Crosses personal deciding line and fire. Call 911 and describe, establish case with police. That's the most ambiguous I can think of right now and without any verbal response or anyone laying hands on the defender. More interaction would make things even less ambiguous as to intent / justification at least in my mind. And the above scenario would seem realistic to me (although I am not the judge or jury) for someone without ESRD - who is in fear for their life or grievous bodily injury. Maybe you are worried that your appearance would throw a judge/jury into thinking there was no reason to fear for your life or that there really was no disparity of force.

If there is no case law regarding this does that mean you will take a few blows before drawing? Or wait until someone grabs you before you draw?
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Old January 30, 2012, 05:06 PM   #28
KC Rob
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Maybe you could rig up something like this on your bike, should act as a pretty good deterrent:

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Last edited by KC Rob; January 31, 2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old January 31, 2012, 04:18 AM   #29
Alaska444
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Quote:
Yesterday, 01:57 PM #27
dyl
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Join Date: October 31, 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 284
No specifics to give to you (no cases). But I am just having a difficult time thinking of a scenario when the situation would be so ambiguous that the defining key would be that you are a dialysis patient. Attacker/s approach at night, recieves verbal warnings, defender moves off line /retreats yet attacker follows/pursues and shows intent, defender's weapon drawn, attacker ignores further warning. Crosses personal deciding line and fire. Call 911 and describe, establish case with police. That's the most ambiguous I can think of right now and without any verbal response or anyone laying hands on the defender. More interaction would make things even less ambiguous as to intent / justification at least in my mind. And the above scenario would seem realistic to me (although I am not the judge or jury) for someone without ESRD - who is in fear for their life or grievous bodily injury. Maybe you are worried that your appearance would throw a judge/jury into thinking there was no reason to fear for your life or that there really was no disparity of force.

If there is no case law regarding this does that mean you will take a few blows before drawing? Or wait until someone grabs you before you draw?
Good summary. Yes, going by my appearance, I am actually about 200 pounds, 5'6" and still fairly muscular. I don't look like the usual dialysis patient since I do home daily. I still look like I can handle myself and I still have a fair amount of my strength, but very little endurance. The biggest issue is the superficial nature of my access and a single blow to the biceps where it is located could cause irreparable harm. Rupture would result in a very quick death with nearly 2L of blood a minute through this access.

Thank you for the information. It all depends on the basics in many ways and following the proper training. We were trained to back up if possible yelling stop, I will shoot. I understand the no retreat laws, just the preference of the CCW instructor making easier to defend backing up.

I hope I never get to put the issue to any test. Thanks for looking.
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