The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 24, 2012, 04:51 PM   #1
TxFlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Posts: 854
Polymer Striker Fired Sub 1" Single Stack FULL SIZE 45ACP Imminent?

Phew that was a long title. What do you guys think? There's a momentum to push for full size barrel single stack THIN polymer frame 45ACP. Right now its mainly in the subcompact region but do you think major manufacturers will jump on board in the next year or so? Once the polymer platform reliability and durability is proven in the subcompacts I think we will see very soon the 5 inch lightweight sub 1 inch thick striker fired pistol...to reap the benefits of improved ballistics of longer barrel 45 and of course to compete vs the ergos of the venerable 1911
TxFlyFish is offline  
Old January 24, 2012, 04:54 PM   #2
Uncle Malice
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,554
Pretty sure Kahr has a decent size .45... I mean, it's not a huge gun, but it's big enough to wrap your whole hand around.
__________________
Glock 17 G4 FDE | S&W M&P 22 | Sig P226 MK25 | Sig P226 | Sig P229 Extreme | HK P30 | HK45 | HK USP | HK USP Compact | HK USP 45 TACTICAL | XDM 45 Compact | XDM 9
Daniel Defense DDM4 V4 | Arsenal SGL 21 | ASA SBR w/ Side Charger | Savage Mark II FV-SR | PSA M4 clone
Mossberg 590A1 20" SP | Mossberg 500 Cruiser
Uncle Malice is offline  
Old January 24, 2012, 05:02 PM   #3
TxFlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Posts: 854
I was think with the SA XDS and Glock 36 and Kahr 45 series, if they can achieve reliability in sub 4in barrel platform they can definitely provide a full size barrel 45, say maybe 4.5-5 inches? My gut feeling is that a lot depends on the success of the XDS to bring SW, Ruger and maybe Keltec along. Hk and Sig im not sure as they're still in the hammer camp
TxFlyFish is offline  
Old January 24, 2012, 05:02 PM   #4
nmg
Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2007
Posts: 25
I would be very interested in seeing something like that.
nmg is offline  
Old January 24, 2012, 05:27 PM   #5
tahunua001
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2011
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,840
HS Produkt/Springfield Armory might already be experimenting with the idea. they are about to release the XD/S, a single stack, 45ACP pocket gun that's about an inch at it's widest point(the takedown lever). right now it's a pocket gun with 5+1 capacity but adding an extra inch or so could bring it up to 1911 capacity and adding length would increase accuracy so if springfield/HSP is smart that will be the next step in the XDS line.
__________________
ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar.
I never said half the crap people said I did-Albert Einstein
You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin
Bean counters told me I couldn't fire a man for being in a wheelchair, did it anyway. Ramps are expensive.-Cave Johnson.
tahunua001 is offline  
Old January 24, 2012, 06:13 PM   #6
Adamantium
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 1999
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 981
I personally don't see where the market is for these, but isn't this what you are looking for?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...lymerStainless
__________________
New gun, same ol' shot.
Adamantium is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 09:46 AM   #7
rodfac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 22, 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,512
Interesting thought, the 1" dimensional issue, Tx...I just measured my WWll issued Remington-Rand .45 1911A1...the slide is 7/8" across at the muzzle, and the grip thickness (with stock gov't issued panels in place) is 1-1/8" across....I'd say you've got your 1" dimension in a stock 1911 plus the weight necessary to comfortably handle the .45 ACP. Extremely light wt. .45 ACP's, say lighter than an alloy frame Commander, would bring in controlability issues, I'd think.

I'd see the savings in wt. as a questionable plus for a polymer framed .45...but an aluminum framed Commander brings the wt. down to a minimum anyway. What do you think on this or is there another issue you're addressing? Not sure where you're going with the "striker" vs hammer question and the 5" vs. the 4-1/4" barreled Commander is a non issue as far as ballistics is concerned.

Best regards, Rod
__________________
Our Flag does not fly because the wind blows against it, it is moved instead, by the dying breath of our patriots in uniform. Our Freedom is not free, it's been paid for many times over.
USAF Forward Air Controller, 5th Spl Forces,
An Loc, lll Corps, RVN, 69-70, Vietnam Vet '69-'73
rodfac is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 10:07 AM   #8
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,957
It also looks like Rock River introduced a polymer 1911 at the SHOT show. You can read about it here: http://quacksgunstuff.blogspot.com/2...shot-show.html
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 10:22 AM   #9
lcpiper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2011
Posts: 1,405
Seams like the two biggest benefits of polymer are manufacturing cost and weight/space savings which allow for hi-caps. In this case you need the weight for controlability.

That TCP45 would be the way to know right now. If someone has one it would be good to know how it fires. Of course we could look for some videos and see if any demonstrate how the weapon handles.

In all honesty my Kimber Ultra Carry 2 is in the hard to handle category for me. I like it, but I can't shoot it very fast and hope to hit anything, just so much recoil. I am currently planning on getting an EMP 9mm to see how it handles.
__________________
Colt M1911, AR-15 | S&W Model 19, Model 27| SIG P238 | Berreta 85B Cheetah | Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223
lcpiper is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 10:52 AM   #10
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
I also fail to see anything special about a striker-fired pistol. I have one, though, but I also have a hammer fired pistol as well and it happens that both have polymer frames. It also happens that of the two, the .45 has the thinnest slide (barely) but it is longer in the grip (but thinner there, too (barely). To have a shorter grip, you would have to give up cartridge capacity but I don't think anything is gained with a shorter barrel.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 11:13 AM   #11
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 4,310
All of the Kahr polymer-framed .45s are 1.01" wide. Not striker-fired, but a pretty good trigger. That's a bit narrower than the narrowest Glock in .45 ACP.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 07:12 PM   #12
Adamantium
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 6, 1999
Location: El Paso, TX
Posts: 981
Quote:
Not striker-fired
How is this not considered striker fired?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ga_zarhtp45_200804A2.jpg (105.0 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg ga_zarhtp45_200804A1.jpg (137.7 KB, 27 views)
__________________
New gun, same ol' shot.
Adamantium is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 08:15 PM   #13
Walt Sherrill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 15, 1999
Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA
Posts: 4,310
My error. (And, I had a P9, too.)

For some reasons, I was thinking it had an internal hammer, like the Kel-Tec P11, which allows true DAO without a striker. The Kahrs are striker-fired. (But the lack of a hammer isn't always an indicator that a gun is striker fired.)

So, it really meets the original poster's requirements.
Walt Sherrill is offline  
Old January 25, 2012, 08:59 PM   #14
TxFlyFish
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2011
Posts: 854
The Kahr would certainly come the closest at this stage, I am certainly looking forward to this segment being a major player in the next few years.

I truly think that we have the capability of designing a striker fired platform that can match or surpass the 1911 footprint AND handling AND reliability

1) lower bore axis
2) lighter overall package
3) less parts/cost
4) less maintenance
5) modularity

basically...combine the best of both platforms. We have compacts/subcompacts now we just push to full size. Imagine a single stack full size M&P45 with all its handling capability and reliability, except now less than 1inch thick and weighing in at 26oz


Quote:
Interesting thought, the 1" dimensional issue, Tx...I just measured my WWll issued Remington-Rand .45 1911A1...the slide is 7/8" across at the muzzle, and the grip thickness (with stock gov't issued panels in place) is 1-1/8" across....I'd say you've got your 1" dimension in a stock 1911 plus the weight necessary to comfortably handle the .45 ACP. Extremely light wt. .45 ACP's, say lighter than an alloy frame Commander, would bring in controlability issues, I'd think.

I'd see the savings in wt. as a questionable plus for a polymer framed .45...but an aluminum framed Commander brings the wt. down to a minimum anyway. What do you think on this or is there another issue you're addressing? Not sure where you're going with the "striker" vs hammer question and the 5" vs. the 4-1/4" barreled Commander is a non issue as far as ballistics is concerned.

Best regards, Rod
Rod, that's a very valid consideration however I have come to realization that while weight does play a factor in recoil management it is not as big of a factor as platform design and ergonomics. For instance, I would rate a big Hk mk 23 as having more forceful and less controlled recoil than a govt Colt 1911 than an even lighter M&P 45. The major factor is an effective platform to control recoil...eg bore axis, grip angle

Last edited by TxFlyFish; January 25, 2012 at 09:17 PM.
TxFlyFish is offline  
Old January 26, 2012, 07:33 AM   #15
BlueTrain
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2005
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,825
Colt has a full size aluminium framed Government model at the moment, although I realize you're asking about a polymer framed, striker fired version instead. Springfield Armory also had one, I believe, but I never saw one. I have seen the Colt and it's up there in price. Surely a polymer framed gun would be priced less. S&W has a big one but it is double-stack in the magazine department.
__________________
Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands!
Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag,
and return us to our own beloved homes!
Buy War Bonds.
BlueTrain is offline  
Old January 26, 2012, 08:15 AM   #16
excelerater
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 27, 2011
Location: Memphis TN
Posts: 694
XDs is fouthcoming and look very attractive .....
Wont own a Kahr (too many bad CSR stories)
Id love to see a M&P Slim of some sort ..1911 in poly IMO is plain wrong
like wearing an NRA American flag hat made in China...
G36 is nice but too large IMO...Glocks work great and all sell a boatload
but they offer nothing new to the table

Ruger,I am betting will make an SR45c,but it will prolly be a double stack?
excelerater is offline  
Old January 26, 2012, 09:38 AM   #17
ScotchMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Posts: 1,329
Quote:
Ruger,I am betting will make an SR45c,but it will prolly be a double stack?
I am still waiting for this...
__________________
Everyday Loadout

NRA Instructor
NRA Member
ScotchMan is offline  
Old January 26, 2012, 07:13 PM   #18
vyse.04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 529
I have a Kahr CW45, and can say first hand that their CS is great. I wasn't happy to have issues with a NIB firearm, but my replacement part was received within a week. I didn't even have to give any information about the handgun, outside of the issues that occured. Mine had a bad spring that held the slide release lever in place. After swapping it out, my CW45 has run perfectly.

I wasn't sure how it would perform being a .45 in such a small package, but I like it enough that I think I may end up getting a PM45 as well. Glock 36s are great too if you prefer a shorter pull. Being that they are pretty light weight and designed for CC (as opposed to target shooting), I don't think there will be much of a market for a 5 inch barrel.
vyse.04 is offline  
Old January 26, 2012, 07:16 PM   #19
vyse.04
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 10, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 529
Quote:
G36 is nice but too large IMO...Glocks work great and all sell a boatload
Just curious, but how are they too large? It is the only Glock I would consider buying, and it really isn't big compared to many of the more traditional compact, double stack firearms that are available. I was surprised at how accurate I was able to shoot them, given the smaller grip.
vyse.04 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11164 seconds with 8 queries