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Old February 16, 2012, 04:59 PM   #1
Bartholomew Roberts
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OH Drive-Thru Store Owner Shoots Robber (Video)

In Ohio, the owner of a drive-thru store noticed one of his clerk's being robbed via the monitor. He grabbed a handgun and using the corner of an aisle in the store as cover, engaged the two robbers (one armed with a handgun and one armed with a bottle of champagne used as a club).

The robber who was armed fired back at almost exactly the same time and then charged at and past the store owner shooting the entire way - in fact, the security video has good enough resolution that you can see the store owner came within inches of getting ventilated as the robber ran by him at point blank but it struck a bottle of soda instead.

http://www.local12.com/news/local/st...dQB-fkrDA.cspx

I thought this would be a good discussion for Tactics and Training because any time you have video of the shooting it lets you get a better idea of what went on and see places where tactics could be improved.

1. Good on the store owner for using cover/concealment. It may have made the difference in whether he got shot or not in this fight.

2. The robber got shot four times with a centerfire handgun (chest, abdomen, leg and arm), yet looking at the video, you wouldn't even know that the store owner hit him. Anybody who thinks that their firearm is a death ray is going to be surprised at the way the robber not only moves very quickly; but keeps moving and shoots back. They later found him collapsed about a block away from the store; but during the confrontation on video, he shows no signs he has been hit repeatedly.
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Old February 16, 2012, 05:14 PM   #2
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Excellent point about someone being shot not going down right away even a cursory study of shootings will show this is more the norm than not. Also, I noted that the owner could be seen actually taking time to aim while the robber just pointed in a general direction and fired.
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Old February 16, 2012, 05:46 PM   #3
OldMarksman
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Agree on both 1 and 2.
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Old February 16, 2012, 05:48 PM   #4
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I would love to know,,,

Caliber, bullet type, etc.

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Old February 16, 2012, 06:21 PM   #5
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Yeah that might make some folks re-think that .25 auto or .380 they wanted to carry because it was easy to shoot...

I would be interested to know what the store owner was shooting.
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Old February 16, 2012, 08:40 PM   #6
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Took a second to yell "freeze" and decide to shoot. Wonder how much of a difference that made...
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Old February 16, 2012, 09:21 PM   #7
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He used cover? 3-3rd's of his body was visible from what I see.
I have never seen such a store as this, drive through?
I don't even use the drive through at a fast food joint.
The store owner is lucky he wasn't hit! and he did stand his ground and shot from a decent stance. He has had training of some kind.
4 hits is truly the result of a good stance.
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Old February 16, 2012, 09:58 PM   #8
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He used cover? 3-3rd's of his body was visible from what I see.
Yeah, that wasn't cover. It wasn't even concealment.
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Old February 17, 2012, 04:23 PM   #9
BleedinPurple
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needs to work on shot placement...there is no reason you should hit a guy 4 times and none of them are incapacitating...
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Old February 17, 2012, 04:37 PM   #10
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^ and you've been in how many shoot outs?
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Old February 17, 2012, 05:51 PM   #11
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Saying he wasn't covered is bit like saying you got in an accident when your wheel skidding on a wet road for a second. The bottom line is that he didn't get shot, and from what I can tell he had some cover when he engaged the subject.

What is amazing about this video is that he's a rock. He just keeps on the guy even as he's charging at him.

And this actual event happened about 10 minutes from where I live. I've even been through that drive-thru. Pretty crazy.

Drive-Thrus are pretty common in Ohio. They sell beer, wine, soda and candy. You drive into like a covered hanger-like building. Tell the guy what you want. Sometimes they'll even load the case of Pepsi or Bud Light into your trunk for you. You pay and drive off.
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Old February 17, 2012, 06:19 PM   #12
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Yelling "freeze" is bad tactics.

There's no reason to be yelling "Freeze" or "Drop it!" But especially not so in this case, Ozier already fired a shot at the clerk before the owner emerged from the back room.

IMO, if a prior robbery motivated me to upgrade the video surveilance, it would also motivate me to get a shotgun and a bullet-proof vest and keep them in the back room.
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Old February 17, 2012, 06:50 PM   #13
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I would like to see the toxicology tests on the targ...er, perpetrator, it's no secret that the widespread use of controlled substances has made the question of handgun ammunition effectiveness more complicated.
The calibers that ARE "death rays"-44 Magnum, 454 Casull, .480 Ruger, .500 S&W, etc. are too much for most of us mere mortals to handle. Bill Jordan said of the 44 Magnum that while it was unlikely that anyone clobbered with this cannon would need a follow up shot the possibility that he might have an accomplice must not be overlooked. And hits with minor calibers hurt a lot more than misses with majors.
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Old February 17, 2012, 06:53 PM   #14
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Yelling "freeze" is bad tactics.
It's worse than that. It's pure Hollywood horse @$%@.

Of course, now, most of America believes that, when you're confronted by an assailant with a gun in his hand, you have to say "freeze" first. I guess then you each have your guns pointed at each other and talk the other guy into dropping his weapon.

"Drop it!" "No, you drop yours or I'll shoot!" "Oh yeah, if you do that, you die, too!"

Rather nauseating, isn't it?
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Old February 17, 2012, 07:25 PM   #15
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thanx for video

removed...answer found in article
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Last edited by youngunz4life; February 17, 2012 at 07:27 PM. Reason: answered my own question
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Old February 17, 2012, 08:56 PM   #16
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I would be upgrading to a "social shotgun" in my office if I were that clerk.
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Old February 17, 2012, 09:07 PM   #17
Bartholomew Roberts
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It is also worth noting that the original owner of this drive-thru was killed in a robbery according to the article.
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Old February 17, 2012, 09:45 PM   #18
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Saying he wasn't covered is bit like saying you got in an accident when your wheel skidding on a wet road for a second. The bottom line is that he didn't get shot, and from what I can tell he had some cover when he engaged the subject.

What are you taking about? Skidding on a wet road? Your comparison makes no sense.

I said he wasn't in cover because he wasn't using cover. The only part of him that was behind "cover" was his right leg.
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Old February 17, 2012, 10:26 PM   #19
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I am thankful that everything turned out okay for the owner and the clerk.

As stated, it appears the store owner had some type of training in the past. Those who say the store owner should have a shotgun may not have all the facts. Not all ranges allow shotguns, and you need to have a firearm with which you are familiar and can practice shooting. It is also hard to do work in different parts of the store while carrying a shotgun around with you. If he leaves the shotgun while working in another area of the store, the criminals might get access to the shotgun. Have the firearm with you, and they will have to overpower you to get control of your firearm.
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Old February 17, 2012, 11:09 PM   #20
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needs to work on shot placement...there is no reason you should hit a guy 4 times and none of them are incapacitating...
4 hits on a moving target (2 of them torso hits) while being shot at from close range is pretty good shooting. It's not very realistic to expect to do much better than that in a dynamic, real-world situation.
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Old February 17, 2012, 11:39 PM   #21
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Quote:
needs to work on shot placement...there is no reason you should hit a guy 4 times and none of them are incapacitating...
There are plenty of reasons:

1) Handguns are underpowered. If they had enough power to deliver sufficient energy to incapacitate someone immediately, they'd need a stock to be controllable, and then they would not be a handgun anymore, would they?

2) That was a "two way range": You stand there and take the time for a precise shot, and you'll get shot.

3) I did not see any mention of the caliber used or if they were personal defense type loads- 4 hits (only one to the chest) with 9mm fmj target ammo might hurt like hell, but unless a major artery, the heart, brain or spine is hit directly, it's not likely to be incapacitating anytime soon .....

My suggestions:

1) A pistol is a defensive weapon. It's what you have with you all the time. In this situation, the store owner was going on offense, from his office. He should have taken a 12 guage pump gun to confront these goblins.

2) "Freeze!"???? I would not. Ok, if you want to say it, but if the goblin twitches, dust him with the 12 ..... and I doubt he will return fire after catching a load of buckshot at converasational distance.
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Old February 17, 2012, 11:45 PM   #22
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^ Pretty much agree except I think most semi-auto shotguns are pretty reliable now and a better choice than pumps.

I can't see on the video where the owner shot... some of those shots must have been taken while the BG was charging towards him guns blazing...

That's true grit !

Instead of saying "Freeze !" He should have yelled "Fill your hand you son of a bitch !!!"

Last edited by C0untZer0; February 17, 2012 at 11:53 PM.
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Old February 18, 2012, 12:04 AM   #23
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He should have yelled "Fill your hand you son of a bitch !!!"
Good idea- that would have confused the man, as his hand was already full of gun, and bought a second or two while the guy puzzled it out!
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Old February 18, 2012, 12:39 AM   #24
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I would be upgrading to a "social shotgun" in my office if I were that clerk.
Me too. Along with a good pistol loaded, as per my preference, with HST or DPX.
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Old February 18, 2012, 12:47 AM   #25
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4 hits on a moving target (2 of them torso hits) while being shot at from close range is pretty good shooting. It's not very realistic to expect to do much better than that in a dynamic, real-world situation.
I agree. No way to tell, but those hits may very well have saved his life by preventing Bubba from unleashing any effective fire. My only criticism is making himself vulnerable by letting Bubba take the initiative.
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