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Old January 15, 2012, 09:15 AM   #1
stonewall50
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Dog Defense?

I recently had a friend attacked by a dog. She was put in the hospital, but she is ok now. I am wondering if anyone has any experience with such issues, and if they can make any recomendations. A firearm is probably not going to be the first answer in this particular situation because the person I would like to pass the information off to is not 21.

I have heard about pepper spray, but I would like to know more about the different types as far as dogs are concerned. Should a gel be used? Or a spray? I have recommended gel to friends for humans, but I know nothing about dogs.

Any first hand knowledge, LEO or otherwise, would be greatly appreciated.
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Old January 15, 2012, 09:57 AM   #2
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I'm a dog-owner and lover--and just like with firearms--owners are responsible for the behavior of their dogs. Most dog owner's in the areas I live in are simply ignorant (or don't care) of the law regarding dogs--which in most areas holds that the owner is responsible for the behavior of their dog off their property. My dogs are on leash and controlled at all times except when in a dog park or in my fenced-in back yard. I still get attacked by other dogs occasionally--but so far a firm "sit" yelled out, along with a warning growl from my Lhotse, has stopped all dogs of all sizes in their tracks. I personally would hate to hurt a dog--but a dog off leash and attacking can maim or kill a human--so I think the justified force doctrine applies--especially if children are involved. BTW--aggressive dogs kept outside the home most of the time are often used by drug dealers as early-warning and deterrent "devices." I'd say your friend has a good case to go after the dog owner if she is so inclined--at least for medical bills and possibly for a citation if the dog was off leash. I do carry when walking my dogs--and there was/is a drug dealer in the hood that had an especially large German Shepherd that was obviously trained to attack--in that case I would have drawn and shot the dog without hesitation if it attacked and was about to lunge (dogs will often rush and then stop just short--a "dare" kind of thing).
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:06 AM   #3
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A walking stick and training might be a good idea and will serve well into later years. Pepper can sometimes fail and can also blow back in your face if the wind is strong and coming from a bad direction, so caution is needed when implementing this method. A pocket knife could be a last ditch final line of defense but you would need a rather large knife and I'm not sure how laws in your area will affect that.

What sort of activities is your friend participating in when the risk of a dog attack presents itself?
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:15 AM   #4
Willie Lowman
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I have used Saber Red spray to deter overly aggressive dogs when I am cycling.

There was a pretty good pepper spray thread on T&T a few months ago.
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:25 AM   #5
stonewall50
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Just to answer, my friend was on a neighborhood walk. I don't know if she was in her home town or college town, but I know it was the area she lives at.

I have heard of saber red. I do know that dogs respond to pain, and that the right spray and the right attitude can change things. My friend is not a large person, so what works for a large man may not work for her.

I do know that pepper gel is not as blown about by the wind like spray is. I have personally tested some pepper gel on a windy day. There was little change in pattern at about 10 feet other than a slight sideways stream that was easily corrected.

Oh and leash laws are not as harsh as they are in other places. It isn't a suburb and a lot of people don't leash their dogs or really have any control.
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:27 AM   #6
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For most dogs, good body language is sufficient to deter them from closing within arm's (or kick's) reach.

Really, for most of them, not showing fear, but talking in a calm, friendly but forceful tone has worked very well.

In cases where that seems unlikely to work, a good stick often gets attention. So can picking up a rock (or miming same).

Spray can work, but note wind direction.

Dog whistles could work.

A gun would not be my first choice for most dogs, but would be my first choice for a drug dealer's attack dog.
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:28 AM   #7
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A good OC works fine. Folks will come along and say it dosen't work all the time etc. and so forth. We should remember that guns don't stop the threat all the time either. You friend should gain some understanding of dog behavior, and take along a stick and OC. I would prefer a good sized can that gives a longer range stream.
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:34 AM   #8
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For myself, a gun is usually my only defense. It is very difficult for me to try and carry pepper spray, and a large stick I would have to find. But that is because my own routine does not involve going through evil dog infested areas. The only time that happens a nice swift opening of the truck door solves the problem because I am not out of the vehicle.

But from what yall are saying a stick might help with a dog? What concerns me is that it could **** an aggressive dog off. For a small framed woman that may not help. On top of that is of course that I don't know if this woman has the ability for the skull crushing blows of someone like you or me. I have watched a grown man punch an overly aggressive dog in the head and knock it out cold for a minute or so. But this man was a beast of a man and hit him directly on the top of the head.

What kind of dog defense stick are we talking here?
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:48 AM   #9
jhenry
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A simple walking stick. I have used one to fend off dogs with no blows at all. Simply having a stick will keep many dogs at bay. It would give time to spray the thing for instance. Another thing I have done several times is to simply stoop down and pick up a rock. If there are no rocks then pretend to pick one up, they can't tell. Most country dogs have been rocked a time or two and didn't like it. I am not saying it will work for every person every time, but I will tell you that every time I have done it the dog acted like I had a force field around me.
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:49 AM   #10
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A Blackthorn walking stick would be a good example.
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:50 AM   #11
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jhenry, we seem to have encountered similar dogs.
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Old January 15, 2012, 10:57 AM   #12
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Alrighty guys. Thanks for those answers. A stick sounds like a great plan. I am sure the particular dog is being put down as we speak (incident happened this morning), but I would like to have an understanding for myself so I can pass it on as well.

I understand posutre and dog behavior and all of that. I am just worried about stopping the dog that isn't deterred. I myself am not afraid of dogs in the slightest, I grew up being inches from cage aggressive dogs in the animal hospital. I have even been able to use the catch poll before too.
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Old January 15, 2012, 11:02 AM   #13
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I grew up with intense contact with animals of several species, and understand them pretty well. Better than I understand people, in fact.

Almost any dog I have ever met will back off if you have a stick in your hand, if you brandish it a bit and combine it with some stern vocal commands. Same with rocks, just stooping as if you're picking one up will makes most dogs think twice.
They are often testing your resolve, and if they sense they have the upper paw, they'll proceed with the attack. In that case, hit them as hard as you can.
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Old January 15, 2012, 11:24 AM   #14
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A few weeks ago while hiking, my German Shepherd and I had a close encounter with two Rhodesian Ridgeback (aka African Lion) dogs ... I had to draw my weapon on them, but since I'm familiar with dogs I didn't shoot. These dogs showed attack behavior up until the last 10 yards (of their 100 yard sprint to us). In addition, we encounter coyotes (solo and packs of six) very often when we hike.

I recently started carrying Counter Assault Bear Spray as my first line of defense. I emailed the company and they told me that their spray is effective to deter dogs and coyotes from continuing their attack. I've also seen bear spray used in youtube videos on attacking dogs and it appears to work. I purchased my 8 oz can at Sportsman Warehouse for about $40.

http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/s...0026/cat100464

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Old January 15, 2012, 12:19 PM   #15
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As a former high mileage runner, I have had many encounters with loose dogs. The only bite I recieved was a small fiese dog. He caught my heel and I had to have stitches.

The best defense I found was a golf club. A 7 iron was best for me.

It is lightweight but the head will immediately disable a pit bull if applied to the base of the skull.
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Old January 15, 2012, 12:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltc444
The best defense I found was a golf club. A 7 iron was best for me.
That's thinking outside the box. I applaud the idea. Lightweight, non-threatening, very pc, but a suitable club if necessary. I would caution about using a 2-iron, cause no one can use a 2-iron.
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Old January 15, 2012, 01:08 PM   #17
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Pawpaw and I are thinking alike, I carry a cheap 3 wood(aluminum).
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Old January 15, 2012, 01:14 PM   #18
Grant D
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Simple...electric Cattle prod works great on a dog. Cost about $50.00
Light and easy to carry when you can't use your gun.
Was walking to a friends houise down the street one night and was attacked by three dogs, one round into the ditch and they all scattered but I live in the country so can fire anywhere in the area, even from my front porch.
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Old January 15, 2012, 03:03 PM   #19
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Police-issue OC works well. I have had several large, viscious dogs (including a pit bull and a Rot) turn tail when hit in the eyes with it.
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Old January 15, 2012, 03:04 PM   #20
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So far, so good.

This one's remained civil, but if you do a search here, there's been a bunch of previous doggy threads, most of them closed when emotions ran too high.

So we don't have to close another one, keep this civil and on topic.... please!
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Old January 15, 2012, 03:58 PM   #21
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A number of years ago, had a neighbor who raised and showed Norwegian Elkhounds, . . . and did quite well at it.

She ALWAYS kept a plastic squeeze bottle in her hip pocket, . . . half water, and half ammonia.

She would spray a rag from her belt with it and throw in on any offending dog that wanted to bite, fight, or just cause trouble.

End of problem.

I don't know all the psychology or chemistry involved, . . . but it worked for her and she was a professional dog showing person (whatever you call them).

It is my choice if I would be in any situation where I would be fearful of dogs.

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Old January 15, 2012, 04:38 PM   #22
Carne Frio
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I carry bear spray and either a 44 magnum or 10mm.
I have used the bear spray 4 times in the last 4 years
on large aggressive dogs. It worked great every time.
Haven't had to shoot one in at least 6 years. Dog owners
frown on shot dogs and don't seem to mind that their
dogs get peppered, now and then.
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Old January 15, 2012, 05:02 PM   #23
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Pepper spray is illegal here concealed firearms are illegal. So that leaves your boot. But i must say its not a problem i or any one i know has come up against.
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Old January 15, 2012, 05:23 PM   #24
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Are shillelagh illegal in N. Ireland?
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Old January 15, 2012, 05:36 PM   #25
manta49
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MLeake
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Join Date: November 15, 2007
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Posts: 6,622 Are shillelagh illegal in N. Ireland.

Yes you are allowed a big stick. As long as you dont hit anyone with it.
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