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Old January 4, 2012, 02:42 PM   #1
CMichael
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Another bump in the night question: Ammo Capacity Vs Caliber

I am pondering which handgun to take in case of a "bump" in the night I want to investigate.

I have a Glock 34, which has 17 for the mag, or I have a few .45s with a capacity of around 8.

What should I go for:

More ammo capacity or higher caliber?

Thank you,
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Old January 4, 2012, 03:00 PM   #2
Don P
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First thing I would be concerned with is hitting what I have aimed at. If that can't or isn't accomplished then caliber is a moot point. Both will work and do the job "IF" you do your job
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Old January 4, 2012, 03:19 PM   #3
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If you're concerned about power, get a .50mag. If you're concerned about capacity, why stop at 17 when there are handguns with 30 rounds?
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Old January 4, 2012, 03:26 PM   #4
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Got this from the Insights mailing list from John Holschen.


Quote:

When it comes to preparing for individual security….
Quote:
Amateurs think equipment,
Students think techniques,
Experts think tactics.
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Old January 4, 2012, 03:28 PM   #5
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I am a capacity guy- improvments in ammo have closed the gap between 9mm and 45acp enough for my liking.
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Old January 4, 2012, 03:33 PM   #6
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For a bump in the night I cannot imagine needing more than 6-8 rounds. I have never heard of an extended gunfight inside a house that was occupied. I guess a drug house might be an exception, but when shooting started I am persuaded the BG would want to put distance between himself and the house.
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Old January 4, 2012, 03:37 PM   #7
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I would rather have to many bullets than not enough when I need them. Go with the high cap.
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Old January 4, 2012, 04:13 PM   #8
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Forgo the gun. Keep the house dark and go out with a knife.
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Old January 4, 2012, 04:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
What should I go for
The one you shoot the best.
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Old January 4, 2012, 04:41 PM   #10
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Like most threads similar to this, I believe a home invasion is unlikely to need an armory to defend against. I'd be out there with either my .357 snubbie (6 shot) or my shotgun (7 shot), even with a compact .38 5 round I honestly would feel I had more than adequate firepower. It's more what you will do than what you have power or capacity-wise.
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Old January 4, 2012, 05:21 PM   #11
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CMichael
More ammo capacity or higher caliber?
You know, I once had the privilege to listen to a discussion between a cop and a military guy who had both been in multiple gunfights with pistols and shot and killed people.

The cop liked higher caliber. The military guy liked higher capacity. They weren't able to agree on the point other than to acknowledge that choice of pistol/caliber was way down the list of things that contributed to a successful outcome.
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Old January 4, 2012, 06:37 PM   #12
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
Amateurs think equipment,
Students think techniques,
Experts think tactics.
Amen Glenn!

But what is the person who thinks 'strategy'?

As in avoiding or making situations one is presented with daily favor oneself before any fight?

See I'm a B.H. Liddell Hart guy;-)

As for the capacity .vs. caliber or power or whatever, use the largest caliber you can control well and spend more time on making whatever is in the weapon do what is needed and don't worry so much on capacity.

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Old January 4, 2012, 07:30 PM   #13
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Me too! I studied Lidell Hart in Military History from a Major General/PhD who was head of the Hungarian Military Academy and had to flee from the Communistis in 1956.

Great prof and course!
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Old January 4, 2012, 10:00 PM   #14
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I would personally go with what ever is closest to me at the time be it my SW9VE or my 7 shot 357 revolver. The way I figure it is that at a time like that you don't have a lot of time to decide. Just grab and go. Then run and gun .
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Old January 4, 2012, 10:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
When it comes to preparing for individual security….
Quote:
Amateurs think equipment,
Students think techniques,
Experts think tactics.
I would expect an expert to consider all 3 equally. Any one of the 3 relies on the other 2.
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Old January 4, 2012, 10:16 PM   #16
Doc TH
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With handguns, shot placement is the most important factor in stopping a gunfight, as has been shown by many large metropolitan police databases of shootings.
If you feel better with high capacity, that's fine, but I can't imagine needing 17 rounds in a home invasion scenario.
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Old January 4, 2012, 10:17 PM   #17
dyl
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An interpretation of that parable:

Amateurs think of equipment because they don't have any yet!
After the new gun smell wears off and dry firing/loading the empty mag into an empty gun/dropping the slide gets boring the thought occurs.. "maybe I should try shoot this thing. Let me find some boo-lits for my clip"
And experts: well, the arthritis puts a little damper on things. But my mind and my mouth still move pretty fast!

(note: NOT an expert...yet)
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Old January 4, 2012, 10:33 PM   #18
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Which do you shoot best?
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Old January 4, 2012, 10:52 PM   #19
Deaf Smith
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Quote:
I would expect an expert to consider all 3 equally. Any one of the 3 relies on the other 2.
Yea, but Bill Hickok still used cap-n-ball .36s while everyone else migrated to cartridge guns and he still shot those guns one handed and really really well. And I guess you could say he was a expert.

By the time you are an 'expert' you will have discovered most serviceable fighting weapons will do and all those bells and whistles don't matter all that much. And you've figured out one does not need a huge variety of techniques as long as you are skilled (study Miyamoto Musashi and see why).

Then tactics and strategy will be more of your concern.

Deaf
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Old January 5, 2012, 12:48 AM   #20
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I can understand if people are on a budget and they need a gun to be their Self Defense, HD/nightstand gun/car gun, hiking camping - everything gun.

But if people have money, and they're serious about home defense, and they're not just buying firearms because they're fun and cool - somewhere along the line they should have picked up a shotgun instead of buying yet another handgun.

If someone breaks into my house I don't want to be exchanging fire with them to the tune of double digit shots.

A shotgun is a way way more effective weapon. Anyway you look at it, its way more effective. When you're using shot you're creating multiple wound channels, and if you're of the philosophy of big 45 and 50 caliber projectiles are good - then a 70 caliber slug shoul dbe better.

So instead of asking "Which should I be using, a 44 Magnum with 6 rounds or the Five Seven with 20 rounds?" The question should be "Should I use 00 Buck, #1 Buck, #4 Buck ???"
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Old January 5, 2012, 04:56 AM   #21
MikeNice81
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Quote:
shotgun is a way way more effective weapon. Anyway you look at it, its way more effective.
Unless the person can't handle it well. My wife can handle my 9mm very well. A shotgun, not so much. I rather her have 6 shots of 9mm than 6 shots of 12 gauge 00 buck. The fact that the 9mm has 16 shots is just a great bonus.

Sometimes what the person can and will practice with is the most important consideration.
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Old January 5, 2012, 05:56 AM   #22
Nnobby45
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Quote:
What should I go for:

More ammo capacity or higher caliber?
In the end, it's a choice we all have to make. I'll carry a P228 in 9mm, a P229 .40, or a P220 in .45.

What I carry that day is what's sitting on my night stand.

Which isn't all that far from my 870.
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Old January 5, 2012, 01:55 PM   #23
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I understand everyone has different circumstances but generally speaking, instead of shooting someone sixteen times over the course of 3 or 4 seconds, I'd rather shoot them sixteen times all at once.
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Old January 5, 2012, 03:07 PM   #24
CMichael
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Quote:
Quote:
When it comes to preparing for individual security….
Quote:
Amateurs think equipment,
Students think techniques,
Experts think tactics.

I would expect an expert to consider all 3 equally. Any one of the 3 relies on the other 2.
I too think that an expert needs to be equally concerned about all three.

What good is tactics if you don't have equipment or techniques?

I any case that is outside the scope of this thread.

This thread is about capacity vs caliber.
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Old January 5, 2012, 03:44 PM   #25
Glenn E. Meyer
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The answer is in the concept of explanatory variance. Expert opinion (or whatever) would indicate that there is little difference between a quality 9mm round or 45 ACP. Thus, that is a moot point. It's fun to argue on the Internet though.

Someone will propose that the shotgun is the ultimate weapon. Some will say use an AR as easier to use than a shotgun.

But, without a reasonable knowledge and skill base to use any efficacious weapon, you are at a disadvantage. Esp. if you contemplate negotiating around your house at night.

There is little useful variance in your two choices. It probably makes NO difference in a reasonable scenario. If it were more intense than can be handled with a handgun - then you do need the AR.

Thus, that's why folks like Holschen tear their hair out (well, he can't do much of that - sorry - ), when folks in a class just want to talk about ammo and type of gun.

You could handle most situations with a SW Model 10 and a good 38 SPL. If it is more intense, you should know what you are doing. Having a custom 1911 vs. a Glock 34 doesn't matter.
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