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Old January 16, 2012, 03:58 AM   #1
HALL,AUSTIN
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What 12gauge load for HD?

I have #4buck in at the moment but is there a truly better option or is it a personal preference?
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Old January 16, 2012, 06:06 AM   #2
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I have 00 buck and #4 buck. At in-house ranges I feel either will get the job done nicely, but not necessarily neatly.
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Old January 16, 2012, 08:35 AM   #3
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Hornady

I carry Hornady in my pistols so I went with their 00 buck
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Old January 16, 2012, 09:01 AM   #4
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00 Buck is all that I have ever used for HD. I have heard some people recommend #4 Buck if overpenetration is a concern such as living in a mobile home park or apartment.
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Old January 16, 2012, 10:07 AM   #5
Rifleman1776
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At in-home ranges it is not important. The shot column, regardless of shot size or choke, is still very small at 10 or 20 feet. Your assailant will be blown in half and you will have a messy clean up job ahead of you.
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Old January 16, 2012, 10:27 AM   #6
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifleman1776
The shot column, regardless of shot size or choke, is still very small at 10 or 20 feet. Your assailant will be blown in half and you will have a messy clean up job ahead of you.
If the shot column is still very small, then how can you blow someone in half with it at 10-20'? Or do you consider a shot column that covers the width of a torso to be very small? And if you do consider that very small, wouldn't you still need for the shot to penetrate most of the way through the torso? I ask because you said "regardless of shot size" but low mass projectiles penetrate much less than higher mass projectiles. So how would you blow something in half with a small shot column of shot that doesn't penetrate through the torso?

Or is my internet sarcasm meter broken?
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Old January 16, 2012, 10:37 AM   #7
Lee Lapin
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EVERYTHING that has to do with shotguns is personal preference, as far as I can tell . Especially where the internet is concerned.

If you're happy with #4 buck, there's nothing wrong with it. It'll most likely do fine, in the unlikely event it has to be used at all, if the shooter does their part of course. A miss with #4 is no better or worse than a miss with 00, save that the #4 might not chew through quite as much intervening household material before it stops.

Which might be a disadvantage for #4, if the housebreaker hides behind something in the house that's more or less substantial and starts plinking at you.

Gets complicated, don't it?

Me, I settled on 00 (Federal LE127 00) in the magazine and Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddle a long time ago. Haven't found any reason to change anything so far. But of course, YMMV.

There is no "right" answer to any of this, that I know of.
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Old January 16, 2012, 10:45 AM   #8
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Here is TFL's poll: (Thanks Hogdogs)

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...arms+institute

Another thread:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452487

The Firearms Tactical Institute recommends #1 Buck:


Quote:
"Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body."
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
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Old January 16, 2012, 10:56 AM   #9
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Didn't the Navy settle on # 1 buckshot for a general all purpose load? If so this would be good enough for my needs.

Understand I'm not a shotguner but I would rather have a wider pattern of pellets and less chance of over penetration. As for having to shoot through a barricade it could happen but I don't believe this is something that most homeowners should have to worry about.
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Old January 16, 2012, 11:02 AM   #10
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The myth that at short distances birdshot is a column of lead

There is a pervasive idea that at short distances, because the pattern has not begun to open up, birdshot is a column of lead which acts similar to a shotgun slug.

This is false.

No pellet in a birdshot load is connected, welded, glued or attached in any way to any other pellet in the load. As such - each pellet is it's own separate mass. When birdshot hits material - like living tissue, the pellets shed velocity quickly and do not penetrate anywhere near the depths seen with shotgun slugs. Birdshot penetrates to rather shallow depths and generally doesn't reach vital organs
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Old January 16, 2012, 11:18 AM   #11
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The Army uses #00 Buck so that must be the best for HD...

I've heard this argument before.

Why does the Army use #00 Buck ?

Why did they switch from .45 ACP to 9mm? Why don't they switch to .40 S&W or 5.7 ??? - I don't know. They have their reasons I suppose.

Why does the Army use #00 Buck ? Maybe they never read the report by Firearms Tactical Institute on #1 Buck, or maybe the Army and Marines have a much different application for the shotgun than the average homeowner does...

It's pretty rare that the military is worried about over penetration of enemy personell, or over penetration in a direct fire scenario period.

Having said all that, I don't think 00 Buck is going to fail to stop an attacker in an HD scenario provided you don't miss...
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Old January 16, 2012, 11:27 AM   #12
skoro
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What 12gauge load for HD?

Quote:
I have #4buck in at the moment but is there a truly better option or is it a personal preference?
I keep 00 handy in my cabin, but I think ANY buckshot load is a wicked HD round.
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Old January 16, 2012, 01:03 PM   #13
rem44m
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I'm confident that any buckshot will do the job.
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Old January 16, 2012, 01:13 PM   #14
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If you know a reloader who will make up some loads for you, Buck and ball is an excellent HD load.

This load stems from the Civil War. A number of units were issued muskets because the standard Springfields were not availabel. The load was good only for 100 yards. As these units proved their worth they often held the center of the line. They waited until the enemy was within range. Their fire in many cases broke the attack.

Buck and ball consiste of a single ball nestled in buckshot.
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Old January 16, 2012, 01:13 PM   #15
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000 buck magnum in my 870 express--supposedly able to take down a bear.

Last edited by hangglider; January 16, 2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old January 16, 2012, 03:22 PM   #16
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As has been said, #1 buck is the preferred HD load. I have been pretty much stuck on 00 buck, as #1 buck is near impossible to find around here, and I don't enjoy buying ammo off the net. 00 buck is generally listed as the number two choice in HD situations. I keep my 930 SPX loaded with it and have plenty of it on hand, generally Rem.
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Old January 16, 2012, 03:29 PM   #17
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If you already have #4 Buck and it patterns good in your shotgun, it'll be okay for HD. As already noted its not the best preforming buck shot in testing, but most of its pellet load penetrates well enough and it is, way, way better than any size birdshot.
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Old January 16, 2012, 04:58 PM   #18
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Federal did come out with a FLITECONTROL® in #1 Buck now -

http://le.atk.com/general/federalpro...lbuckshot.aspx

It has one less pellet than most other #1 loads and I beleive it is reduced recoil.

Maybe that will make #1 Buck easier to get in places where it's currently hard to find.

Federal FLITECONTROL #00 Buck on Bob and Chuck the zombies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHIrUYRiBk
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Old January 16, 2012, 05:13 PM   #19
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I live in an apartment, so to me overpenetration is an issue. In my 12 gauge I have two shells of Remington HD copper plated BB shot followed by three shells of Remington Express #4 buckshot. If overpenetration was not an issue then I would definitely go with 00 buckshot.
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Old January 17, 2012, 12:01 AM   #20
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Remington Express #0 Buckshot, 6 of them. 870 Shotgun with 8 round extension tube kept in condition 4 (hammer down on an empty chamber, safety off.)
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Old January 17, 2012, 06:20 AM   #21
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For HD in my 870 it's #1 buck. Second choice is #00 buck.
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Old January 17, 2012, 07:17 AM   #22
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Overall, #0 Buck.
In small house or apartment, #4 Buck, #BB or #2 Shot.
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Old January 17, 2012, 01:19 PM   #23
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I know this will make me look like a freak but I like Dixie triball. I all so like the Winchester PDX1-12 but I like the triball more.

Nothing like 3 60caliber balls to stop some one.

I feel I need to mention I would not recommend this if you have neighbors.
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Old January 17, 2012, 01:31 PM   #24
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I have always used #1 or 0 if I can't find #1.
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Old January 17, 2012, 04:56 PM   #25
Stevie-Ray
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Quote:
Federal did come out with a FLITECONTROL® in #1 Buck now -

Maybe that will make #1 Buck easier to get in places where it's currently hard to find.
That's what I'm hoping as well.
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