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Old December 27, 2011, 04:11 PM   #1
PunkInnovation
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Virginia "Instant" Background Check

Last year it took me about 2 hours, on average, to get approval. That climbed to four hours over the months, then six.

Two months ago it took 24 hours hour to get approved for a .270 for deer season. Today makes day 3, not counting the weekend or Monday (26th) waiting for approval for a Sig.

The VSP claims funding is a problem to staff the department that runs the checks, the check is $2. Local rights groups fought a raise to $5 which I can understand. It seems completely insane to enact laws that requires a small group (gun purchasers) to pay for the enforcement of the laws that supposedly benefit all (everyone) by not allowing criminals to purchase legal firearms. Sure it's only $3 extra dollars but I can't forsee any guarantees the money wouldn't be wasted or used to accomplish the goal.

Is what Virginia doing by employing a de facto waiting period even legal? I would rather have a mandatory 3-day waiting period then wait a week for my "instant" check to come through.
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Old December 27, 2011, 04:20 PM   #2
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Y'all need to look into getting VA law changed to have the check done beforehand like we have in Nebraska with our Firearm Purchase Certificate ....... and a Concealed Handgun Permit works for that too: The background check is done beforehand, takes 3-5 days, and is good for 3 years (5 for the CHP). Walk in to the gun store, pick out your gun (or guns!), fill out the Fed form, show your permit, pay and out the door with your hardware!
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Old December 27, 2011, 04:46 PM   #3
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FYI, the FBI NICS background check is a free call, a free service and done while you wait. Available seventeen hours a day every day of the year except Christmas Day.

No state POC is any better than what the FBI provides for free.
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Old December 27, 2011, 05:07 PM   #4
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No state POC is any better than what the FBI provides for free.
Horsefeathers, as time is money. Not having to wait hours or days is better.

You can get it done ahead of time, or wait to get your gun. It's that simple. I have the CHP, so it costs me nothing extra, and having to make another trip to town to pick up my purchase would be more than the cost of the Certificate, if I had to buy one. With the sheer volume of gun sales these days, you are going to wait.

Quote:
what the FBI provides for free.
Nonesuch. Somebody is paying for it. Like as not, it's our Great, Great Grandchildren.
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Old December 27, 2011, 05:34 PM   #5
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I have a very common name, first and last, so I'm always "delayed." Buying from my LGS, I plan on returning the next day. Once they took the full three days to approve a purchase of a <gasp!> "assault rifle." It's a PITA for sure. The delays have gone from a typical half hour to a now-standard day or two.

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Fairfax County
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Old December 27, 2011, 05:41 PM   #6
motorhead0922
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Are you putting your social security number on the NICS form? It's optional, but I have always included it (there is another guy in Missouri with my exact same name) and it has never taken more than 10 minutes for my approval.
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Old December 27, 2011, 07:51 PM   #7
PunkInnovation
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I put my SSN on the forms, I also use my CHP as the secondary ID but it doesn't matter. I put the SSN thinking it would make the check that much easier, but it appears to have no effect. My name isn't very common either. It's frustrating for sure. When the whole system was implemented in VA I thought it was a real step forward for the rights of law abiding citizens.

A two-hour wait was tolerable, a four-hour wait on a weekend I could understand, but 24+ hours seems odd, and even deliberate, given how robust technology is these days.
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Old December 27, 2011, 08:25 PM   #8
johnbt
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"Y'all need to look into getting VA law changed to have the check done beforehand "

Gosh, we never thought of that.
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Old December 27, 2011, 09:38 PM   #9
dogtown tom
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Quote:
jimbob86 Quo
Quote:
te:
No state POC is any better than what the FBI provides for free.
Horsefeathers, as time is money. Not having to wait hours or days is better.
I'm not sure you really know what you are talking about. State POC's access THE SAME databases as FBI NICS does....for FREE....no charge to the dealer or customer. (and you aren't subject to the whims of state bureaucracy) States that use the FBI NICS for their Brady checks may also have the same exemptions to the NICS tht your state has......in other words the FBI NICS is better.

Quote:
You can get it done ahead of time, or wait to get your gun. It's that simple. I have the CHP,
A 4473 and NICS check is done at the time of purchase. The dealer cannot run the NICS check until after the customer has completed the 4473.

Quote:
Quote:
what the FBI provides for free.
Nonesuch. Somebody is paying for it. Like as not, it's our Great, Great Grandchildren.
No, its free. As in no charge to the customer or dealer. If you insist on the argument that "nothing is free", well neither was your concealed handgun permit was it?
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Old December 27, 2011, 09:54 PM   #10
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I'm not sure you really know what you are talking about.
I'm sure somebody does not .....

Quote:
State POC's access THE SAME databases as FBI NICS does.
Yep..... same check is done ..... ahead of the purchase, when we get our Certificate or CHP ...... so it's one trip to the gun store, instead of two.... or three. We fill out the 4473, and they don't do a NICS check, as it's already been done: The "Computer" is never down, 'round here!

Quote:
No, its free. As in no charge to the customer or dealer.
Nothing is free. Ever. Somebody is paying something....... even if it's only a 3 day wait for the check to come back. True, I paid a pretty penny for my CHP, but I was going to get that anyhow. And if I did not have that, the cost of the Certificate is worth not having to make several trips to town because the system is busy.......
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Old December 28, 2011, 07:11 AM   #11
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You want government services for free? You want lower taxes? At some point on the graph the two lines intersected and now there are user fees galore. Pay attention when they start selling the public highways.
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Old December 28, 2011, 07:27 AM   #12
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A good reason to not be a stranger at your local gun shop.

Quote:
the State Police shall have until the end of the dealer's next business day to advise the dealer if its records indicate the buyer or transferee is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm by state or federal law. If not so advised by the end of the dealer's next business day, a dealer who has fulfilled the requirements of subdivision 1 of this subsection may immediately complete the sale or transfer and shall not be deemed in violation of this section with respect to such sale or transfer.
Ther system blows up this time of year for a week or two, every year, so there's a provision.
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Old December 28, 2011, 09:15 AM   #13
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I spoke to a VA State Police employee a month or two ago. The Virginia call in system had seven positions authorized at that time, but only five were filled. There's a state hiring freeze on and you have to beg to fill a position. I'm a state employee too fwiw.

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Old December 28, 2011, 09:54 AM   #14
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In Illinois most gun owners are more than willing to pay to provide the state with extra revenue so we can have the ability to carry.

The extra fees would beef up the staffing at Illinois State Police, and purchase a computer system to facilitate the issuance of CHLs. I waited nearly 4 months for my FOID renewal. Current wait times run between 40 and 60 days.

$2.00 is mind-bogglingly small, VA gun owners didn't want to pay a 3 buck increase?


Our instant check system is basically a 30 second phone call, but Illinois law precludes using fed NICs unless the Illinois sytem is completely down. If the wait times got long, I'm sure we'd be more than happy to pay an extra 3 bucks.
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Old December 28, 2011, 09:56 AM   #15
PunkInnovation
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I got the call this AM. Approved! Just under 6 days. I'll throw in Sunday and Monday, so only 4 days. A new record for me.

Checking some of the other states it really seems like VA is behind the curve on this. When they changed the background checks to instant vs. the 3-day waiting period, and especially when they changed the CHP law to 'shall issue' it felt like Northern VA was going to be breaking away from the archaic DC and MD-type gun laws. It seems VA is back-sliding and blaming the economy for their inability to uphold their responsibilities.
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Old December 28, 2011, 10:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
but 24+ hours seems odd, and even deliberate, given how robust technology is these days.

“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

(Also known as "Hanlon's Razor", among other attributions.)
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Old December 28, 2011, 10:17 AM   #17
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Wyoming uses the Fed system, which is a 1-2 minute phone call.
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Old December 29, 2011, 06:17 PM   #18
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That's all it is in Virginia most of the time. We just buy a lot of guns.
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Old December 29, 2011, 06:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
In Illinois most gun owners are more than willing to pay to provide the state with extra revenue so we can have the ability to carry.

The extra fees would beef up the staffing at Illinois State Police, and purchase a computer system to facilitate the issuance of CHLs. I waited nearly 4 months for my FOID renewal. Current wait times run between 40 and 60 days.
Why must gun owners pay for the implementaition of laws that do nothing but infringe on our second amendment rights? If these laws are for public saftey, let the public in general pay for them. Screwed up! It confuses the small pea rolling around in my head why laws like this would make anyone "more than willing" to do anything.

I wonder if everyone denied a FOID has given up the search for a gun? I also wonder if everyone who has a gun in Illinois has a FOID card? I also wonder if a four month wait for your FOID card has stopped any street crime? I wonder?
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Old December 29, 2011, 08:19 PM   #20
PunkInnovation
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I tend to agree. Yes $2 is small. Yes $5 is small. In May 2009 there were 28 FTE's running background checks ( http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2...21407-ar-4675/ ), that was cut to 11 and now Johnbt reports there are 5 positions filled?

I would be SHOCKED if VA is trying to buy less guns than in years past, which would indicate there would be even more money than ever to fund the positions. Fewer guns might be purchased these days since no one get get a timely approval.

So, where is the money?

I would vote against any fee raises that did not include full disclosure of expenses.
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Old December 31, 2011, 11:23 AM   #21
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I live in Virginia and have purchased several guns in 2010 and 2011. I've never had more than few minutes wait. But I've never bought one over the holiday season. Green Top in Ricmond recently has been shoulder-to-shoulder (for days on end) at the gun counter with people filling out purchase forms. The wait will undoubtedly be longer at that time of year.
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Old January 1, 2012, 12:14 PM   #22
brickeyee
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Sometimes they have to interview a lot of sheep...
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Old January 1, 2012, 05:55 PM   #23
johnbt
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Who was interviewed?
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Old January 4, 2012, 10:36 AM   #24
k4kai
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Still waiting...this is the 4th day

On New Year's day, the wife and I went into Gander Mountain (Fredericksburg) to get a Ruger LCR for each of us. We each filled out the forms (even used our SSANs) and in about 30 minutes, mine was approved and my wife's still is waiting. Makes me wonder, we are both over 70 years of age, not so much as a parking ticket and never involved in anything illegal.

I applied for my Concealed Carry Pemit on 8 December (training based on military service) and expect to have it in a week or so. The wife is preparing to take the local class and then apply for hers. I wonder if my CCP application somehow let my purchase application get approved so quickly?

Happy New Year !!!

10:23AM 06 Jan 2012 --- The wife's application has finally been approved. Huurah!!
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Old January 5, 2012, 10:09 AM   #25
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I was in Green Top yesterday afternoon around 5 and the state police computer system had been down for about 2 hours.

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