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Old January 14, 2012, 03:23 PM   #1
1tfl
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Remington 700 rifle in 223 at Walmart

I was at Walmart this morning and walked by the gun rack to see what they had. They had a Remington 700 ADL in 223 for $449. It had the black matte finish with the typical SPS black plastic stock except the ADL style built in magazine.

Anybody know what the barrel twist rate is on these rifles? I check the Remington website but didn't see this exact rifle. I asked the guy behind the counter but that got me nowhere.

If this rifle has 1-9" it would make a good hunting rifle. I was thinking of getting it for my 12 y/o nephew.
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Old January 14, 2012, 03:36 PM   #2
Marquezj16
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If my memory serves me right, my ADL Varmint had a 1 in 12" barrel.
I don't know about the regular barrel.
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Old January 14, 2012, 04:43 PM   #3
emcon5
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Pretty sure all the non "Tactical" .223s from Remington are 1:12.

The SPS which replaces the ADL is 1:12
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Old January 14, 2012, 08:26 PM   #4
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I have a 700ADL, it is 1:12 which I believe is standard on the 700. That means about 60 gr maximum bullet size, mine shoots 50gr best, most 55gr very well, groups start to open up quickly with anything larger than 55. For varmints, predators, target practice, it is likely to be a very accurate rifle with 50-55gr bullets. You can take deer with it if it is legal in your state but it is an experts gun in that respect. I have taken a dozen or so, all neck shots 100 yds or less. None took a step. But shoulder and heart lung shots with that little bullet is probably asking for trouble. If you hit a rib or shoulder bone you can have a deflection and end up with a ugly non-fatal (for many hours) wound.
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Old January 14, 2012, 08:39 PM   #5
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Also 1tfl, my 8 1/2 yr old grandson took his first deer this yr with my .243. Started him shooting my 17HMR rimfire to let him learn to use the scope (he's been practicing in the back yard for a yr with bb gun). Then we shot for awhile with the 223 to let him get used to a little recoil and more muzzle blast, finished up by firing 2 or 3 with the 243. which has the identical scope to my 223 so he was used to that sight picture. He set up in a 2 man box stand coached by his dad and made a stone cold killer heart shot on a doe at 100 yds. Not surprising since all of my grandkids are above average. I think that is a pretty good system for starting a youngster out. But if you plan to shoot larger game a mid range caliber 243, 25-06 or similar is probably a better choice based on my experience with both. That gives you the power needed for deer with modest recoil.
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Old January 17, 2012, 12:33 PM   #6
1tfl
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I went back to the store last night with a cleaning rod and a bore mop.
The clerk let me check it out and it was 1-12" twist... too slow for my purpose. I know a lot of people don't like to see 223 used on hogs and deers but around here it is very popular caliber for hunting and I bet more hogs are hunted with 223 than any other caliber. For under 150 yards they are very effective with right bullet. Most rifles are very accurate when bullet and barrel is matched. Plus it has almost no recoil so people shoot it well.
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Old January 17, 2012, 02:15 PM   #7
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Hmmmm. That would be a good donor gun for a 300 Blackout project I have in mind........
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Old January 18, 2012, 10:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
@1tfl

I went back to the store last night with a cleaning rod and a bore mop.
The clerk let me check it out and it was 1-12" twist... too slow for my purpose. I know a lot of people don't like to see 223 used on hogs and deers but around here it is very popular caliber for hunting and I bet more hogs are hunted with 223 than any other caliber. For under 150 yards they are very effective with right bullet. Most rifles are very accurate when bullet and barrel is matched. Plus it has almost no recoil so people shoot it well.
1x12 is faster, flatter and will outlast a 1x9.

Deer and hogs? I reckon even @ 1x12 a 60 gr partition will get it done as long as your distance is realistic.

I've shot 60 gr partitions in my 1x12 and it shot no bigger than 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards and showed no signs of key-holing at 200 yards.
-SS-
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Old January 18, 2012, 10:33 AM   #9
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My buddy's son shot a pig with a 1:12 .223 Handi Rifle and a 45 grain Barnes TSX bullet. They stabalize just fine in his .223 rifle. There are bullets out there that will work with 1:12 twist to keep you shooting hogs.
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Old January 18, 2012, 09:38 PM   #10
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Barnes also makes a 55 gr partition bullet in 223. As pointed out you can certainly kill deer and hogs with 50 to 60 gr bullets in 223, but you are working at its upper limit so shot placement is critical. While I never want an animal to suffer needlessly, in out area the hogs are getting so destructive and in such numbers that we shoot them on sight with what ever we have handy. They are right up there with terrorist insurgents.
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Old January 18, 2012, 09:52 PM   #11
rjrivero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffbill
Barnes also makes a 55 gr partition bullet in 223.
Barnes makes some wonderful bullets, but the Partition isn't one of them. Nosler makes the Partition.
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Old January 18, 2012, 10:03 PM   #12
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My bad, that is indeed Nosler. Barnes makes their triple shock bullet in 223, I have loaded them and they work as designed. That was 2 or 3 yrs ago but I assume they still make them. I think that TSX is the no lead version.
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Old January 19, 2012, 01:46 AM   #13
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A 1-12 twist is not fast enough for a 55 grain Barnes bullets. A 55 grain Barnes is like shooting a 70-75 grain jacketed lead bullet. Like most other copper/gilding metal bullets they are long for there weight so they need a faster twist.
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Old January 19, 2012, 02:21 AM   #14
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A one turn in 12 inch twist will stabilize up to 55gr lead core bullets and that rifle is meant for the average varmint hunter.

A one turn in nine inch barrel might rip the 40gr bullets apart in flight.

And lots of 223Rem ammo carries a 40gr pill with a little picture of a g-hog or coydog on the box, marketed toward the average varmint hunter with a one in 12 turn barrel.
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Old January 19, 2012, 07:08 AM   #15
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I shoot a ton of 35-40 grain V-Max out of my 1:9 twist Stevens 200. Have yet to see one come apart on me, except when they contact varmints. I'd rather run too fast of a twist than too slow of one, but in this case I could work with the slow twist. I didn't have to look to hard to find a few hunting bullets for the .223 and a 12 twist.

The 45 grain TSX bullets will stabalize in a 1:12 twist .223, you have as well the 55 grain Sierra Game Kings in a FMJBT, HPBT and SBT that will work with good shot selection. The TSX will work for any good hunting shot and I'd reserve the Sierra's for brain shots on hogs. I don't know the OP's hunting regulations but I'm pretty sure the FMJ bullets are legal for hogs since they are usually classified as varmits. But again I'd limit myself to brain shots as the FMJ while deadly will result in tracking on broadside shots.

The real problem is we don't know if the OP reloads or not? If he doesn't reload I'd pick up some Winchester PP ammunition in the 64 grain PP. It has a CXP2 rating, and is a semi-pointed bullet. It probably isn't any longer than a 55 grain SBT bullet and would stabalize in a 1:12 twist rifle.
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Last edited by taylorce1; January 19, 2012 at 12:02 PM.
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Old January 19, 2012, 09:30 AM   #16
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This rifle has 1-9" Savage Axis 223. Very heavy trigger, but accurate. Cheap stock.
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Old January 19, 2012, 09:45 AM   #17
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Just looked at the Barnes web site, The TSX is an all copper/gilding metal bullet. They make 223 in 45, 50, 53, 55, 62, and 70 gr. 1:9 minimun is recommend for 62 gr, 1:8 minimum for 70 gr. The 45 - 55 gr do not specify a twist which probably means they consider them acceptable for any twist rate common to 223. Refreshing my memory the ones I tried were actually the 53 gr and I only used 1 box because I could not get them to group as well as Hornady and GameKing in my 1:12 barrel. Lends credence to Fullboar's point that 53-55 do better with 1:9 twist because of their dimensions. For those who do not reload, ---never mind, their eyes have glazed over. For those of us who do, we know these results can vary from rifle to rifle and load to load.
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Old January 19, 2012, 06:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
@mrawesome22

A one turn in 12 inch twist will stabilize up to 55gr lead core bullets and that rifle is meant for the average varmint hunter.
I'd have to respectfully disagree. 60 or 62gr traditional lead bullets with a flat base (not boat tail) can shoot very well from a 1x12 which is meant for far more than just varmints. Admittedly, it's most popular civilian application—by far—are paper targets, then steel, then varmints, then deer.

It's only the rifleman and the law that limits the use of this twist and caliber.

-SS-
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Old January 19, 2012, 10:03 PM   #19
emcon5
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I always fall back to this chart, on Dan Lilja's web site:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilj...#twist%20rates

It says 60 gr bullets will work with 1:12 twist. Sierra makes a 60 GR Game King.

Whether that is adequate for pigs is a matter for discussion.....
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Old January 19, 2012, 10:45 PM   #20
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Buy the savage right next to it. Where I am the remington 700 is $397 for the black synthetic and the camo is $449 I had the 223 from walmart with the 24" barrel and didn't like it. I sold it and bought the savage axis from Walmart.
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Old January 19, 2012, 11:02 PM   #21
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Buy the savage right next to it. Where I am the remington 700 is $397 for the black synthetic and the camo is $449 I had the 223 from walmart with the 24" barrel and didn't like it. I sold it and bought the savage axis from Walmart.
What didn't you like about it? To me the Axis would be a serious downgrade.
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