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Old January 17, 2012, 09:41 PM   #101
WyMark
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Look on the brighter side of things.



She's probably not really alone, and chances are her "friend" is carrying anyway. So it's safe.
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Old January 17, 2012, 10:28 PM   #102
Onward Allusion
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Quote:
hangglider
Chattanooga is a never-ending source of information on shootings, here's a case in point: http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/.../?breakingnews
^^^^
THIS is why I am such a huge advocate of carrying at home, especially if you have little ones (under the age of reason say 8, 9, 10 YO depending on the child). Lock everything else up but have one on your person in a pocket holster or a passive retention holster. This will go a long way to avoid the above types of tragedies.
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Old January 17, 2012, 11:07 PM   #103
Cycrops
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Hi MLeake, thanks for setting me straight about not being able to carry the Beretta cocked and locked, I obviously have a lot to learn.

Quote:
Is it really even your decision to make? Is this your wife or your child?

You may not realize it, but some of those arguments you are making come across as chauvinist/condescending. That may not be your intention, but I can't imagine telling my wife "I will not let you touch the ______ gun until you train to my standards.
I'm not sure how you go from what I posted:
Quote:
Also need to decide with the wife whether the handgun should be accessible to her as a line of defense before she's had a chance to do live-fire training with it (seems like the prevailing opinion here is 'no').
and arrive at your imagined words from my mouth, but I suppose this is where I should point out that I don't know if you're aware that you come across as failing to thoroughly read what people write before you make judgement. That may not be your intention.

I'm sure my marriage dynamics are not the same as everyone's, nor would I expect them to be. I don't believe I am chauvinist, but I do believe that I have my realms of authority and my wife has hers. I bow to her expertise in several areas and vice versa. I'm not in the habit of issuing orders to my wife (your imagined quote from me don't reflect my style), but I believe I am capable of convincing her one way or another in terms of our approach to gun handling, especially in the early stages of ownership. I'm glad to hear everyone's opinions on the subject, including hers.

BTW, I ended up working late tonight, so no trip to the range . Hopefully tomorrow!

Last edited by Cycrops; January 17, 2012 at 11:30 PM. Reason: Taking a stiffer jab at MLeake's off-base comment.
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Old January 17, 2012, 11:34 PM   #104
KC Rob
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Quote:
I'm hoping her hands aren't too small to handle the double-action pull, it would be a shame if I had to buy another gun so soon
Just FYI, I bought a Beretta 92 as my first "home defense" hand gun only to find out to my dismay that my petite wife could not pull the DA trigger. The reach for the trigger was too long for her small hands and she could not exert the 10-12 lbs of force needed pull the trigger. It is a fairly large gun. I sold it and bought a Glock 17 which my wife had no trouble operating and she still to this day, 15 years later, has that gun as her "nightstand" gun.

As far as quoting text, you have to copy and paste the text, then click the "quote" button on the tool bar at the top of the text box.

*Edit* Never mind, I see you figured it out.
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Old January 17, 2012, 11:47 PM   #105
Cycrops
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Quote:
*Edit* Never mind, I see you figured it out.
Haha, thanks for trying!

My wife is on the tiny side and I suspect that she will have the same issues yours did with the DA trigger length/weight. Someone suggested in another thread that a spring can be replaced to make the weight of the DA pull more manageable? Regardless, we'll find out soon when she attempts to dry fire it with a snap cap.

I can't imagine selling the Beretta, I love the way it feels and the thing is so good looking! I'm sort of hoping it motivates the wife to decide she wants to shop for her own gun, nothing would make me happier than staying home with the babies while she takes a trip to the range
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Old January 18, 2012, 12:00 AM   #106
garryc
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My wife is disabled in her left shoulder and has a weak hand. She can pull the trigger of my SIG P250c (Which she has stolen for her night stand by the way!) And my CZ82 (Which she has stolen for her desk drawer by the way!!) But not may DA revolvers. She is not allowed to shoot my XD40 sub compact, for obvious reasons.
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Old January 18, 2012, 12:59 AM   #107
dyl
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Wow. LOTS of input on this thread.

I forgot to mention another important security feature we recently installed.

Sheer + Opaque curtains. I originally had wanted metal mini blinds - it's what I grew up with but my wife was used to curtains. We'd talked about them before so we went to get curtains and she chose a few favorite colors/designs and we decided out of those. We use the sheer curtains during the day, and close the opaque ones at/near dark. Just to test how it looked without them I went outside at night when just the sheer curtains were drawn shut and I could count the number of people in the painting hanging across the room. You could pretty much see anything. With the opaque curtain visibility was down to nothing. This was for the big living room window which is a plus during the daytime. The house also came with old nasty opaque dark red curtains for the bay window in the den that we flipped (we see the white side) that we draw shut during the night time. Otherwise anyone can see everything.

I don't know how things are over there but there is a lot more privacy after we installed those. The previous owner had an awning but no curtains.

You're off to a great start.

About the 9mm being a poor choice for a beginner - the first handgun I shot was a CZ75b. I hadn't had any formal handgun training previously and neither had my friend whom I had shot with. I think had both shot rifle/shotgun before (don't remember). Nothing went full-auto on us. I (with my paper plate size groups low + left) was quite jealous of my friend's saucer size groups... at 7 yards which were also low + left. Bless his soul. (he's still alive).

As far as formal safety training goes:
The NRA instructor was even more stringent about safety practices than I was. He removed all ammo from the room before dry fire practicing - which I wasn't doing at the time. He was very vigilant in watching our trigger finger discipline and muzzle direction and was set to alert us of any dangerous habits. I recommend the NRA first steps course - I thought it was great. I don't know what's available in your area but we had a variety of firearms to choose from and practice familiarity with, did dry-fire practice with/without lasers, dry fired and live fired on the range. Learned a couple stances, and I could go on...

Looking back at myself when I first started, I knew and followed the safety rules but slowly acquired how it would look like applied to situations as they came up (or when I saw others' failures). I'd like to hopefully shorten that time for you on just 1 point: (forgive me if you know this already, I don't know if you have many shooting buddies to learn from)

Keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction:
When something goes wrong with the gun (squib load, failure to fire/feed/eject) a common pitfall is that the shooter will turn to the buddy/instructor with their attention focused on the malfunctioning gun which is typically held about chest height...which points wherever they turn. So everyone down the line has been muzzle swept and their buddy is looking down the barrel. (and sometimes a finger is still on the trigger). You may have the privilege of witnessing /experiencing this so watch out. watch for this when you or your wife practice - it's easier to be complacent in the comfort of home. You can turn the head and even the torso if you must as long as the arm/firearm is still pointed in a safe direction (and finger off the trigger). Now what about if you're pointing North, and need to point South, but someone is to the East/West? You could point at the ground (watch for feet/toes) as you turn and then bring it back up when you're looking at the destination. Or you could point up at the sky (I usually don't do that) but the gun should be raised above your head in that case (just bending the elbow would put the muzzle about chin height)

And you'll see this one a lot on Youtube firearm review videos: as much as possible even if you "know" the gun is unloaded avoid putting a hand in front of the muzzle. Unless it is field stripped/disassembled, it's not a good thing to do nor a good habit to form. And be careful of those youtube videos. I've seen some unsafe practices demonstrated, and it seems just about everyone is trying to give instruction. (apparently, me included. that's my cue to quit )
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Old January 18, 2012, 08:33 AM   #108
Cycrops
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Interesting point about visibility into the house. We are at the top of a hill, which means from the street even with window treatment wide open, people can only see top of the wall and ceiling. That said, we have the ability to block visibility into the front of the house.

Don't ask me how I learned the lesson that neighbors can see through sheer curtains. Let's just say that in my younger days I put on a show without intending to...

I don't think one can give/get too much advice about gun safety. It seems that the firearms community is very safety-conscious, and with good reason. I've been a member of several automotive forums, and even though avoidable vehicular accidents cause far more deaths than firearms do in this country, there are relatively few threads on car forums where people stress the fundamentals of driving safely.
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Old January 18, 2012, 09:30 AM   #109
MLeake
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If your wife's hands are small, the problems the 92 could pose probably won't be with the weight of the trigger pull. I'd imagine her hand strength probably isn't bad, toting newborns around all day. The reach is probably going to be the issue, especially the DA reach. The 92 has a big grip. A long reach can force the shooter to rotate the gun, muzzle to the outside, relative to the shooting hand in order to engage the trigger. This tends to pull shots, and amplify perceived recoil.

She should pick out her own gun, when you buy the next. It should fit her hands, so she can get the pad or first joint of her trigger finger on the trigger while keeping the gun aligned with the long bones of her forearm. This will help with trigger control, sight alignment, and recoil control.

Not sure where the nearest range that has rental guns is, relative to your location, but if possible, it's always good to let people try a variety to find out what fits best, and what works best for them. If it's painful to shoot, they generally won't put in the practice time.

Expense is another factor. A .22LR, similar in operation and feel to the centerfire primary, can be a very good idea. So can conversion kits (the Kadet for the CZ75, for example), which let you practice with the same frame and trigger, by changing out the slide, barrel, magazine, and recoil spring. Conversion kits run in the $300 ballpark in many cases, so they are in the same price range as many regular .22 pistols, but I actually prefer the conversions on guns for which they are available. (Using the same grip and trigger really does help.)

Last edited by MLeake; January 18, 2012 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Removing argument, moving it to PM where it belongs, going into "nice" mode
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