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Old January 13, 2012, 05:49 PM   #26
C0untZer0
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A normal door and door frame with a cheap chain kit and brass screws is not going to secure anything. It has to be a quality security door and frame and a quality chain or hinged bar setup.

Quote:
answer the door with a knife at least 1' long and stab the stomach then slice.
^ Ouch.
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Old January 13, 2012, 06:01 PM   #27
giaquir
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Invest in strong doors and locks.

Not many doors or locks can keep out bad guys.
They only delay them a bit.

If your wife thinks she has to yell thru the door
to tell someone to go away,you should
prolly move because it sounds like she and you
are afraid of the neighborhood.
Buying a weapon and taking a course is a good
start in the right direction but one also needs frame of mind
and it sounds like neither of you have it.
Owning a firearm especially for self defense is quite
a responsibilty and can be used out of fright in
the wrong situation.
You don't want mommy raising her kids from prison.
I don't know your finances but if'n I was you
I'd pay a technician from a security system to go thru
the house and secure as much as possible and also
have it monitored. A good panic button wouldn't
hurt either nor would a good baton at conveinent
locations.
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Old January 13, 2012, 06:21 PM   #28
Young.Gun.612
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I'm still stuck on the aversion to even opening the door. Not EVERYONE who comes to the door is intent on doing harm. While I have no data to back it up, I'd guess that its actually a pretty small chance. This isn't to say she shouldn't be proficient with a gun, but maybe you don't need to be so worried (read: paranoid) that she doesn't even answer the door...
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Old January 13, 2012, 06:27 PM   #29
AndersonG22
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Quote:
I'm still stuck on the aversion to even opening the door. Not EVERYONE who comes to the door is intent on doing harm. While I have no data to back it up, I'd guess that its actually a pretty small chance. This isn't to say she shouldn't be proficient with a gun, but maybe you don't need to be so worried (read: paranoid) that she doesn't even answer the door...
That depends where you live...
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Old January 13, 2012, 06:28 PM   #30
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Depends on the neighborhood trends.

We are buying a place in a nice, rural area with nice neighbors... who live anywhere from .3 miles to 1 mile away.

They have recently had a problem with a gang of thieves kicking in the doors during the daytime, apparently after knocking. (People who don't answer the door might encourage these types, as they are actually trying to hit homes while people are at work.)

A couple of them made the mistake of hitting one friend's place, where the dog is both outside and not friendly to strangers. He had been out shooting, elsewhere on his farm. Drove his ATV back to find a couple guys cornered on his porch. The guys claimed to be lost and looking for directions. My friend was armed, as he'd been shooting, and between him and the dog, the two guys were eager to leave.

My friend let them do so, but then immediately called his dispatch (he's a retired deputy, and still does some part-time work with the SD). The plate on the van he reported turned out to have been stolen; a sheriff's cruiser caught the guys a few properties down.

Seems there may be an organized gang of eight or more thieves...

And it is a nice area.
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Old January 13, 2012, 07:09 PM   #31
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Another argument for my idea of putting day cares every where.
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Old January 13, 2012, 07:50 PM   #32
tet4
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Cornered cat.com

Find a range in the area that offers private trainers or women's only classes. Send her there one night with one of her girl friends. Trust me, it's better if you aren't there anyway.

Tell her to shoot as many guns as she wants and when she finds one she likes and the trainer thinks is best for her tell her to buy it on the spot.

Get a quick access safe for the handgun t keep it safe from the kids.

Let her order as many books on firearms as she would like. Lessons from armed America, armed and female, etc.

I'm guessing that you could get her to a trainer in three days tops.
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Old January 13, 2012, 08:18 PM   #33
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Since the OP is new here, let me clarify tet4's first suggestion:

Visit PAX's website www.corneredcat.com ... or maybe just tell your wife that the folks at TFL recommended that she take a look at the site.

IMHO, it is never too early to start the process of getting familiar with how to make a pistol ready and then make it safe again. Also, if there is no experience with handguns, then I typically go down to the local sporting goods store and get an airsoft replica that comes close to what you will have and use that to teach the basics of aiming and trigger control. No, it isn't totally realistic, but getting rid of the noise and recoil can be a good thing when someone is getting introduced to handgunning. Besides, you can come back to the airsoft later if you want to run some scenarios in the house after proficiency has been attained.

Mindset has been mentioned already ... but I would not put a fiirearm into play until I was certain that there would be ZERO hesitation in its being used if the situation dictated it. The last thing that you want is for an intruder to all of a sudden be armed with YOUR weapon. Securing this mindset requires a lot of soul searching and some serious conversation. I could be wrong here, but if a person can't bring themselves to tell someone to "go away" when they don't want them there, then they may not (yet) have the mindset necessary to do whatever it takes to stop someone from harming one of their loved ones. That is by no way suggesting that the mindset can't or won't be acquired, just that it may not exist today.

Stay safe,
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Old January 13, 2012, 08:29 PM   #34
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After you read TheCorneredCat and ignoring all the well intentioned posts to get X gun, get her some training, let HER pick the gun she wants. In the meantime, a can of bear spray would most likely be better than a gun she is not prepared or knowledgeable about
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Old January 13, 2012, 09:06 PM   #35
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I am going to make some assumptions here.

I assume that you are a young family with limited resources.

Have you made a security plan? There has been a lot of discussions about the main door. There are some simple inexpensive things you can do to secure the rest of your home.

Patio door. Cut an old broom handle so that it just fits in the track and will prevent the door from opening. The same can be done on sliding windows. Place noise makers at locations were they will be knocked over when someone is entering the home in an unconventional manner. An empty Coke can with some pennies or flat washers make a tremondous racket when they fall to the floor. I use these to train my dogs not to steal food off the kitchen counter.

All ways have her carry her Cell phone with her. Have 911 on speed dial. It should be position 1 or 2.

Harden an interior room. The babies nursery would be a good idea. A fire door with a dead bolt.

Even if she can't go to the range dry firing will help her and is great training.
My Pistol Coach had us dry fire 10 to 20 times for each round we put down range.

The 12 ga may be to big for her. My wife, even with professional training, is afraid of our Mossburg. A 20 ga or even a 410 is effective at close range. Remember a 410 slug has the muzzle energy of a 44Mag.

Other nonlethal items are also effective. Bear Repellant, ABC Dry Chemical Fire extinguishers (my personal favorite) and any number of common household cleaners and bleaches.

She has to become the she bear protecting her cubs.

Note of Caution: Once she becomes aware of the possible threats. DO NOT GET CUTE AND TRY TO SNEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND SUPRISE HER. You do not need to have and accident which leaves her a widow and your babies fatherless.
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Old January 13, 2012, 09:20 PM   #36
.40cal
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Alarm system # 1

Firearm # 2 ( training is a must )- you need to discuss your concerns and get her on board with this. If she has no desire to learn to use a firearm then it will do no good. Just make sure she gets some time at the range at the very least.

Also, go to lowes, home depot, etc. and invest in the alarmed door stoppers. They come two to a pack for about 12 bucks if I remember correctly. It's basically a wedge with a rubber bottom and it takes a 9v battery ( it is alarmed if a door is pressed against it) These little things are amazingly strong and will prevent a door from being forced open without letting out an ear piercing siren.

I have these on all my doors at night in the event that someone tries to breach the door. Hopefully this will wake me and buy me some time to collect myself and react.

Quote:
Note of Caution: Once she becomes aware of the possible threats. DO NOT GET CUTE AND TRY TO SNEAK INTO THE HOUSE AND SUPRISE HER. You do not need to have and accident which leaves her a widow and your babies fatherless.
I couldn't agree more. this is some of the best advice I have ever heard. When I purchased my wife a gun, I told her that I would never sneak in the house or come home unannounced. I always make sure that I call first for that very reason She knows to shoot when someone has entered the home.

Last edited by .40cal; January 13, 2012 at 09:25 PM.
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Old January 13, 2012, 10:09 PM   #37
C0untZer0
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I have 3 kids and I haven't spent the money to make the shotgun both secure and immediately accesable, so it just stays locked up unloaded.

I know there are people who answer the door armed when the FedEx guy rings... but I am guessing most of us don't do that.

Have you thought about where the Beretta go - where it would be when she's home during the day? I think you'll need some kind of accesable safe. They usually go in the bedroom. I don't think the answer is having a gun safe in the living room / foyer / dinning room / kitchen, I think the answer is making your front entranceway more secure with some of the methods listed above.

If someone does start to break in via window or whatever - your wife has time to retreat to a safe room, arm herself, call 911 and do all that. Have a plan as mentioned.

Last edited by C0untZer0; January 13, 2012 at 11:03 PM.
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Old January 13, 2012, 10:32 PM   #38
AndersonG22
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Tell her to carry a long and sharp knife when she answers the door and stab someone trying to force his way in.

The other suggestions are very good especially the rubber door stop alarm, but I would carry a knife as a back up plan. If the guy is skinny he might be able to slip in if the door stop isn't close enough to the door, locks may fail or rip off the wall, but a quality knife wont fail you.

Last edited by Frank Ettin; January 13, 2012 at 11:19 PM. Reason: inappropriate language
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:02 PM   #39
C0untZer0
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^ Again with the knives...

What's with the knives?
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:14 PM   #40
Onward Allusion
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Quote:
Cycrops
My young wife home alone...
There are a lot of things you can do to harden your home security-wise, but I'll focus on your current issue - getting training for your wife. Some of the others have already recommended formal training, so I won't mention that.

Here are a few other ideas.

1. Airsoft or a CO2 REVOLVER for practice in the basement with a pellet trap or target setup. I said revolver because it will teach trigger control as well as targeting.

2. Invest in a Kel-Tec P32 and have her wear it around the house and in the yard...etc. This will ensure that the kids will not have access to the guns and that your wife will have a gun with her at all times. A pocket holster or a paddle holster will be very easy to maintain access. I suggest a P32 because of the minimal recoil and light weight. Also, this will give her time to get to the Beretta. BTW a fully loaded P32 is 9.4 ounces or a little less than 2 iPhones.

3. Review security strategy and keep it fresh in everyone's mind.
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:22 PM   #41
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersonG22
Tell her to carry a long and sharp knife when she answers the door and stab someone trying to force his way in....
Probably not the best idea for a young woman who might well be disinclined to want to close with an attacker.
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:23 PM   #42
Onward Allusion
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Quote:
If someone does start to break in via window or whatever - your wife has time to retreat to a safe room, arm herself, call 911 and do all that. Have a plan as mentioned.
Or, if she's carrying on her person, she can draw and shoot the BG trying to break in. If the OP has 2 babies, it will be pretty difficult to round 'em up and bring 'em into a safe room....etc...etc...

Yeah, I know. It takes a dramatic shift in mindset to carry at home.
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:26 PM   #43
TheGoldenState
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Revolver, .38 special.

No safeties, no jams, racking the slide, no magazine.

Simple, plain, point and pull the trigger.

Train with snap caps/dry fire.

Seems to be the best option in your case.



Can't keep her from answering the door or talking to the public for the next 18 years.

What happens when she's out, alone with the babies?


EDIT:
Quote:
Again with the knives...

What's with the knives?
LMAO
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Old January 14, 2012, 12:09 AM   #44
dyl
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+1 about corner'd cat's web page. I recently read the article about the polite/societal rules and I couldn't agree more.

Our latest house is not the most secure (a lot of windows/doors) but the previous owner did put in motion-sensitive outdoor lights all around and a solid wood front door. I wouldn't know how to install those myself (yet). So my contribution has been battery powered devices from Walmart. I found these cheap (but useful) door/window alarms that go off when the magnetic portion of it is separated from the main body. I put them on our most vulnerable windows, and set some to ring a friendly but loud chime on all of our doors that lead to the outside. Also from Walmart (or was it lowe's?) I found some sliding locks that were easy to install. It took a tiny bit of getting used to but now my wife and I are accustomed to sliding the bolts closed/open every morning. Those went on the front door and the bedroom (also our fall back room). If it came to a chain vs. a decent sliding bolt, I'd choose a bolt. The sliding bolt is closed at the same time the doorknob is engaged which would combine their strengths or at least overlap a bit better. That is unless the knob is turned (but ours is kept locked) - and even then that would mean whoever is battering the door would have to keep one hand on the doorknob which would limit momentum. With a chain a potential habit would be to open the door for everyone and only have the chain as protection. Or if the door were being pushed/battered, the doorknob would fail and then the chain would have to work alone. A sliding bolt directly into the floor is typically stronger than one that engages a metal loop screwed into the door frame. I wasn't able to do that with my sliding bolt (metal plate was in the way) but it's easy to engage/disengage with a foot before going out. But yes, these just buy time. Maybe that rubber door stop isn't a bad idea even if you do other things as it would engage if the door were still to open and buy you even more time. (these ideas of course or just in theory, who knows how it will pan out in real life)

This is just an opinion, but I still feel it's better to speak through the door for the first part of a greeting if anything is in question. It's only as rude your voice is - no more so than speaking through an intercom at an apartment complex. Doors aren't soundproof - they can probably hear you just fine. Any family/friend probably wouldn't mind, and they already have your phone number and wouldn't have a problem identifying themselves. If it's a friend you next fling the door open wide and it's all smiles. But if it's a stranger the closed door gives you time - to think, be mentally prepared and make a decision. Even if it's just to say "sorry I think I'll pass on the Super Concentrated Enzymatic Cleaner today (for $80 cash), but thanks and good luck!" The habit of flinging the door open first thing (some still choose to because of odds or they're armed) - puts you behind the curve as you'll have to identify who it is/isn't and what's going on, and then decide what to do. And if they can see you they know exactly who/where/how many you are and what you've got.

Think of it like being able to screen phone calls with caller ID - same principle and enjoyed by many. But with a more serious second function too.

I was going to suggest roleplaying but that might feel a bit too condescending. A milder version would be to ask her to help you with an experiment - something like:you're curious to see how well people can hear from outside the front door. Start a back-and-forth conversation about something as you go outside and while still talking shut the door and continue the conversation with her. She'll at least have had an exposure.

It sounds like you have a Beretta handgun already.

If that's true you can purchase snaps caps and get her started practicing safe gun handling, function, loading/unloading, and dry firing (and safety again). Even malfunction drills. She can pretty much learn everything short of experiencing the recoil/blast, looking at the groups to verify good sight picture, and re-acquiring the target. You may have already started on this. But even if the range were available to her, it helps a new shooter to learn everything first without the confusion of the explosions going off all around and trying to hear instruction through ear muffs+plugs. Then later just add ammo (at the range of course). To an extent you can even check her trigger control by watching for front sight movement towards the end of the break. One drill I've heard/tried is to balance a quarter/penny/dime on the front sight and dry fire without it falling. (except the front post on my revolver is massive so it's not very hard)

It can be a fun time together. Even though I had been shooting quite a while I went to a short NRA pistol course (just a few hours long) with my wife and we had a good time. (well, I did for sure )

That's just about everything I can think of.
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Old January 14, 2012, 12:18 AM   #45
dyl
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Okay, I just wrote all that gibberish then I saw the thing about the knives.

(I only say that because I'm not skilled with them)

Man that is Medieval!
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Old January 14, 2012, 12:43 AM   #46
Justice06RR
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Please NO KNIVES for HD unless she has had proper training with them.

As we all know knives are mostly short-range weapons and can be hard to use for an amateur/inexperienced person. it should be used as a last resort IMO, either if you run out of ammo or just don't have a firearm.

Plenty of good advice already given. Install heavy-duty door chains on your doors; that should be rather cheap and easy to install. Install 2 of them on each door for added safety and extra time. Also Those rubber door stops that other people suggested may be a good idea too, i've never heard of them but they seem to be a good idea.

If you can squeeze in even 1 or 2 hours a week without the babies then take her to the range or have her take a class of some sort. Then buy a revolver and keep it at home loaded and ready to go, after teaching her how to use it of course
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Old January 14, 2012, 01:25 AM   #47
BillCA
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Regardless of what kind of firearm you get, make sure she has input on it too. Some women will learn the basics then never touch it again for a year or two. With a semi-auto, that lag time can translate into "which thingie do I have to push first?" Revolvers are simpler, but slower to reload which is an area for practice. And with two young'uns it won't be too long before you'll need to secure any handgun in a secure place.

Re: Opening the door.
I don't know why no one suggested this.. Wireless Intercom
Any intercom system will work - wired or wireless - it depends on how much work you want to do to install one. This allows normal conversation between the occupants and the visitor. It's best if the indoor unit is not very close to the door so you can be safely back from the door while talking.

Combine with a larger wide-angle viewer lens on the front door (one with a cover inside or use a small cork) or an inexpensive video camera that can feed a computer or TV screen.
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Old January 15, 2012, 01:37 AM   #48
Shadi Khalil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndersonG22 View Post
For a trained person a gun might be better but I've never trained with either weapon so I can't say for sure. As an untrained person I would take a knife over any gun in that situation.

Why would you prefer a gun?
Do you have an idea how difficult it is to defend yourself with a knife? That right, you don't because you have no training or experience.

The knife idea is awful and the last question is just absurd.
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Old January 15, 2012, 02:59 AM   #49
giaquir
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Remember, any door device is only
as strong as the jam of the door,
the floor or anything you attach it to.
If you have a steel door, now you have to
deal with the "pullout force" of the
screws unless its bolted all the way thru.
But there are so many windows, living space and cellar.
The cellar door/bulkhead.
If somebody strong enuff wants to get in
for some reason.
They will.
ps I like the idea of the window alarms and
intercom but also an untrained woman or man
could defend themselves better with 2 tasers,(the intercom
and the window/door alarms ) because they know, they're not lethal but effective.

Last edited by giaquir; January 15, 2012 at 03:04 AM.
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Old January 15, 2012, 03:13 AM   #50
Buzzcook
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Quote:
If somebody strong enuff wants to get in
for some reason.
They will.
That's the second time someone's mentioned that. All I can do is point out that there are doors strong enough that the cops will arrive before they get broken down.
Of course now somebodies going to say "but what if the bad guy has plastic explosive"?
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