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Old January 13, 2012, 08:56 AM   #26
Brian Pfleuger
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Yeah, but people hunt dangerous animals with small or low energy weapons every day.
They hunt water buffalo and elephants with long bows.
Alaskan natives hunt polar bears with 223.
One must wonder how, if you need a 300winmag to successfully hunt grizzly, the early settlers managed with single shot, low power, black powder guns.
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Old January 13, 2012, 09:04 AM   #27
MikeRussell
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Bigfatts, I understand that, but there also seems to be a progression towards overkill. However, you should note what I said would come with on a bow hunt as backup (I'd consider a .44Mag to be minimum for large dangerous game).

For example, I live in South Louisiana where deer are not huge and long shots just don't happen...yet, there are guys screaming that you NEED a 7 Mag or bigger to kill a deer (that if you are lucky may tip the scales at 180lbs). Now, having lived for a while in Washington state & hunted/killed elk easily with a .308W, I just can't see needing a magnum cartridge to kill smaller game. Part if it (I think) is compensation for poor marksmanship, "keeping up with the Joneses", or some other form of compensation. When I go to sight in at the range, I see these guys & they are lucky to make a 1in group at 25yrds, meanwhile my wife (a fairly inexperienced shooter) is making 1.5in groups at 100yrds with her 6.8SPC (which delivers enough force to drop a deer at 300yrds & there are rarely shots that far out down here).
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Old January 13, 2012, 09:07 AM   #28
tahunua001
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coyote - anything larger than rimfire(my state law minimum) - .243
deer - .223 - 303 brit or 30-06
elk - .270 - .300 weatherby mag
grizzly bear - 30-06 - 45-70

I feel comfortable going hunting with the bare minimums listed, that does not mean that you cant take it with something smaller. my family regularly used to take deer with 22lr when we lived in a state without ammo restrictions, would I ever try it? probably not but it can be done if you are at a decent range, shooting at a decent target. I know you are just trying to get a consensus but these type of threads almost always deteriorate into name calling and discussions on the proper respect for the game you hunt. pack what you feel comfortable with and let the interweb be damned.
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Last edited by tahunua001; January 13, 2012 at 09:13 AM.
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Old January 13, 2012, 09:26 AM   #29
Bigfatts
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Oh I see the trend towards the ultra mega boomers and I understand and find it silly. But my personal opinion is that you should use a gun/caliber that will take the animal cleanly and humanely while protecting your own hide. Some may be able to do that with a .223 or .308, heck what's-his-name the ivory hunter ( Bell I think? ) took train loads of ivory with a 7mm Mauser. Does that mean every schmuck with a Mauser should start slinging lead at Elephants? I certainly wouldn't.

But anyways, I'm going off topic so I'll hush.
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:17 AM   #30
L_Killkenny
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Coyote - What would I intentionally take hunting with me? Any centerfire including the Hornet and the .17's. Target of opportunity? Whatever I have in my hands including a .22lr.

Deer - .243

Have no experience or ambition with the last 2 so I can't help you there.

LK
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Old January 13, 2012, 12:14 PM   #31
warbirdlover
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Quote:
One must wonder how, if you need a 300winmag to successfully hunt grizzly, the early settlers managed with single shot, low power, black powder guns.
And some of the early settlers met their Maker too!

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Old January 13, 2012, 12:20 PM   #32
Flapjack23
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Coyote: .204 Ruger through .243
Deer: .243 through .338 federal (.270, .308, .300WM included)
Elk: .270 through .375 H&H
Griz: .300WM through .375 H&H

IMO...ideal cartridges. The .45-70 would fit for the bottom 3 also. That said, the only coyote I have shot was with my .300WM, I currently hunt deer with my .375 H&H (with a reduced load (260 Gr accubond at 2550 fps)), and the only elk I have shot was with my .300 WM. Nothing wrong with going outside the above on the larger side.

Last edited by Flapjack23; January 13, 2012 at 12:21 PM. Reason: add .45-70
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Old January 13, 2012, 12:52 PM   #33
Saltydog235
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If you're worried about deer or elk attacking you (animals that will run from a little dog critter), you probably need to stay inside in a bubble.
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Old January 13, 2012, 01:12 PM   #34
jimbob86
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Min/Max?

Coyote- .22lr, 40 gr HP ..... it works, I've done it. ....... Max, none...... whatever is handy..... usually a .270 WIN.

Deer- .243, but prefer larger .....max? I don't see a need for anything heavier than .30-06

Elk- .270 WIN, maybe 7-08 ..... max? Dunno. 7 STW?

Grizzly- Min/Max? Biggest thing handy- I'm not planning on looking for trouble, but if trouble comes for me, I'll be undergunned.......
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Old January 13, 2012, 01:34 PM   #35
warbirdlover
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Quote:
If you're worried about deer or elk attacking you (animals that will run from a little dog critter), you probably need to stay inside in a bubble.
Whose worried about deer and elk?
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Old January 13, 2012, 01:41 PM   #36
tahunua001
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Quote:
Whose worried about deer and elk?
^ this... I cant say I've ever met anyone that's scared of these.
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Old January 13, 2012, 02:02 PM   #37
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Old January 13, 2012, 02:32 PM   #38
ngragg
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coyote-.204 (22 mag will drop them dead)
Deer -.243
elk .270 (good shot placement is key with max loads at 150 gr)
grizzly (bigger better, minimal 338 win mag)
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Old January 13, 2012, 02:33 PM   #39
Big Yac
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what about the .35 Whelen, it covers all the animals listed.
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Old January 13, 2012, 02:57 PM   #40
Saltydog235
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Dude on page one talked about deer and elk attacking. Thought that was funny, about as funny as all these rabid, murderous, attack pigs roaming the country.
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Old January 13, 2012, 03:07 PM   #41
FrankenMauser
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Find the mega boomer:
.22 WMR
.223 Rem
.243 Win
.270 Win
.30 WCF
.30-40 Krag
.30-06
7.62x54R
.38 Special
.35 Whelen
.44 Rem Mag
.444 Marlin
12 ga


Game animals I have taken may not be more dead than hunting party members that are using magnum cartridges; but they are usually a better kind of dead.
(Mine drop with one shot, a clean kill, and little (or no) meat loss; while theirs take multiple shots, have massive chunks blown out of the body, and half the meat is destroyed.)
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Old January 13, 2012, 03:13 PM   #42
Buzzcook
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Dogs, .22lr- .30-06
Deer, elk, and black bear, .243- .30-06
Grizzly (hunting) 6.5swede- four bore
Grizzly (charging) four bore.
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Old January 13, 2012, 03:33 PM   #43
Bigfatts
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Quote:
Grizzly (charging) four bore.
You have a 4-bore?! Jealous...
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Old January 14, 2012, 02:26 PM   #44
Daryl
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Coyote - .22 mag through .243, with heavy preference for the .17 Rem.
Deer - .243 through 7mm Rem Mag
Elk - .243 through .300 Win Mag
Grizzly - 7mm Rem Mag through .338 Win Mag
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Old January 14, 2012, 02:49 PM   #45
Buzzcook
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You have a 4-bore?! Jealous...
Nope, but I'd buy one in a second if those magical grizzly started showing up.
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Old January 14, 2012, 06:24 PM   #46
Todd1700
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At close range for coyotes almost anything will do but I'd list my minimum as a 22 mag. Long range my minimum would be a 223. The biggest caliber in my collection I'd reach for if I were going on a coyote hunt? 243. But in a target of opportunity situation I will shoot a coyote with whatever I'm carrying. A 223 is probably perfect for yotes however.

For deer my minimum is a 243. Maximum? Whatever, as long as you shoot it well. I personally would not go larger than a 7mm mag and consider 300 magnums and up overkill for our Alabama deer. But whatever blows your skirt up. It's not like a 375 H&H won't kill a deer. I just wouldn't want to use it for that purpose.

I have no experience with Elk or Grizzly and I'll leave that to people who do.
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Old January 14, 2012, 07:13 PM   #47
30-30remchester
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For all those recommending a 22lr for coyotes, I wonder how many have actually killed a coyote with this caliber and if so how many. I have only shot 51 coyotes so I dont have tremendous experence, but I do have enough. I killed 2 coyotes with a 22lr and wounded 5 that were never recovered. Not real good odds.
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Old January 14, 2012, 07:19 PM   #48
Daryl
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For all those recommending a 22lr for coyotes, I wonder how many have actually killed a coyote with this caliber and if so how many. I have only shot 51 coyotes so I dont have tremendous experence, but I do have enough. I killed 2 coyotes with a 22lr and wounded 5 that were never recovered. Not real good odds.
Bearing in mind that we're talkiing about hunting, rather than animal damage control, I agree with you.

I've killed one coyote with a .22 LR, and won't do it again. It can be done, but the chance of wounding it is too great. The one I killed I shot at least 5 times at close range, and had to finish it with a shot between the eyes.

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Old January 14, 2012, 07:40 PM   #49
TXAZ
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No overkill for Grizzly's

Coyote .243

Deer 7mm /12 ga slug If it was 'just me' 7mm, but deer season has become too unsafe in many locations to use anything with 200 yds+ lethal range.

Elk 7mm

Grizzly - .50 BMG A graze or near miss could enrage this animal: You could be dinner.

This is one instance where there isn't "too big" a caliber, and a role reversal could occur without notice. No apologies if some think this is overkill, as there is no award for taking a grizzly with the smallest caliber while risking your life.
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Old January 14, 2012, 09:31 PM   #50
Brian Pfleuger
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Deer 7mm /12 ga slug If it was 'just me' 7mm, but deer season has become too unsafe in many locations to use anything with 200 yds+ lethal range.
A 12ga slug is dangerous WAY beyond 200 yards. Especially modern sabot slugs. Winchester makes a 300gr slug with a listed 2,000fps muzzle velocity. High-velocity sabot slugs can have well over 1,500 ft/lbs of energy at 200 yards and Winchesters ballistic calculator shows them sighted just 10 inches low at 200.

Even older style rifled slugs, say 400gr with a velocity of 1,300-1,700fps, are dangerous WELL beyond 200 yards and retain 500 ft/lbs or more at 200.

Considering that deer hunters are almost always shooting parallel to the ground or down from trees, there really isn't much reason to believe that ANY particular type of firearm or cartridge carries a specific risk over others.

Most of New York state has been slug-only hunting for longer than I've been alive and we hear of accidental shootings every year. Almost always they are at ranges under 100 yards.

Now, almost the entire state has turned over to rifle hunting (and I guarantee the average population density (human) is higher than ever) and we see no more accidents than before... I'd say fewer just based on the news but I don't have the stats to back it up.

Anyway, the idea that this type of gun or that one is safer or more dangerous for hunting in relatively populated areas may SEEM logical but it doesn't hold up in under scrutiny.
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