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Old January 12, 2012, 12:59 PM   #1
ronz
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Advice wanted on getting ready for a bulls eye league

Starts in a week so don’t have much time to get the guns ready
The wife thought it would be fun so she also signed up
She bought a 22 Browning Buckmark udx (slab side)
I will be using my 45 Springfield 1911 mil spec (fixed sights)
I’m not employed atm so want to get them set up as cheaply as possible
Would like to have them set up for about $200 but with good stuff not waste money on junk we would need to upgrade
I grouped ok with 230 FMJ and some old 230 lrn reloads but only round that was really centered was some 230 hp that are too expensive too consider
What do you think try and load a round that I can hit in the bull or get a scope ?
My wife will be going with a red dot
I already have a 1”ultradot that I bought with the Springfield 20 years ago (been on a sks for the last 18)
And just bought a cheap bsa 32mm red dot to put on a 22 rifle for plinking would it be worth considering using it? or just a bad idea?
Also been thinking about getting a compensator for the 45
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Old January 12, 2012, 03:41 PM   #2
1Hobie
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I shot Bullseye several years ago. One of the things you need to get ready is...your shooting arm. I presume that you know that Bullseye is shot one-handed. It is important that you have enough strength in your grip and arm to be able to hold your arm out for a few seconds at a time. It's surprising how heavy that gun can get when holding it out there getting the shot to break.

You need to dry fire your .45 a bunch to practice your hold. I have a spot on the wall in the basement that I sight on to practice. Snap caps are good but not absolutely necessary. You shouldn't dry fire your .22 unless you use some kind of snap cap to protect the firing pin and the edge of the chamber.

Don't go out on the town the night before and have too much training.

Extra magazines are helpful because you only have a little bit of time between rounds. (the term escapes me at the moment for what each individual course of fire is.)

If you enjoy shooting Bullseye, you'll probably want to look into a simple reloading set-up so that your ammo expenses won't eat you up buying factory ammo. You can also load lighter, such as 3.5 grains of Bullseye Powder pushing a 185 grain bullet. It's a nice light load that gets the job done.

I noticed that you only speak of one gun for each of you. You do know that a standard Bullseye match has a rimfire, centerfire, and .45 relays. You can use your .45 for the centerfire as well as the .45, as most people do. You can't use your .22 for any match except for the .22 relay. So...you're going to need 2 more guns if you're going to shoot the whole match together. Or, one of you shoots in the morning and one shoots in the afternoon.

A gun case is necessary to carry your supplies to the line. Mine also has a spotting scope attached to it. Good hearing protection is necessary and probably required by the range. Good shooting glasses protect your eyes as there is going to brass headed your way unless you're on the far left side of the line.

Make sure your gun handling etiquette is spot on as you will be told, none too politely, to correct what you're doing wrong such as sweeping the line with the muzzle, heading out to your target before the RSO/match director declares the line safe. If you're not shooting, the gun has to be on the bench, magazine out, slide back(cylinder open), muzzle downrange. I've seen people escorted off the property for not strickly following the rules and for good reason. When a cease fire is declared, no matter when, the rules above apply. Your match director will tell everyone what is going on. When he is satisfied that all is well, he/she will state "ready on the right, ready on the left, ready on the firing line....fire."

I hope that this helps. Hope that if you already knew all of that, you forgive me for presuming otherwise.

Have fun, shoot lots of practice rounds and put 'em the X ring!

Hobie
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Old January 12, 2012, 03:46 PM   #3
1Hobie
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Also, yes red dot scopes are widely used. You can shoot open sights if you want to but most don't. Save your money on comping your .45. You just need to shoot light loads. 230 grain factory ammo is hot compared to what Bullseye shooters use. We shoot either 185gr LSWC or 200gr LSWC. They make very clean holes in the target that are easier to score.

Standard velocity is all that is need for the .22 match if your gun will cycle with it.

I mentioned my spotting scope earlier. You can use binoculars if you wish. It's hard to see those little holes at 50yds.

Good luck to you and have fun!

Hobie
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Old January 12, 2012, 07:18 PM   #4
ronz
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]http://www.gunpartswarehouse.com/1911.htm[/url]
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Old January 12, 2012, 07:19 PM   #5
ronz
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It’s a one gun indoor league I think its referred to as a gallery shoot all targets at 75’ 10 slow 10 timed & 10 rapid I shot once on the same type of bulls eye league 20 years ago But will be the wife’s first time
Forgot everything but the basics I do reload but bought 500 230 gr lrn right after joining it didn’t even sink in that I should have bought swc until I was at the range the next day but will use them up eventually who knows maybe they will be the most accurate just suck to score
Don’t think I would be allowed to put an aiming mark on the target and the season may be halfway over before I get the right bullet & powder to line up with my iron sights so the more I thought about it I’m also going with a red dot + I shoot a lot better with one
Mounts for both guns $80 just need one more red dot unless that bsa I already have will work but I just think of the old adage you get what you pay for but have been surprised more than once where the cheap crap was better than the expensive good stuff
And have 7 different types to test through the 22
Her gun is used but looks like its never been fired would any polishing help for a buckmark trigger or just lube it up good
Didn’t think the compensator was needed but I saw them going from $20 to $75 and if the cheap ones don’t hurt accuracy thought would be a cool addition thought about this one only $42 http://www.gunpartswarehouse.com/1911.htm
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Old January 12, 2012, 10:02 PM   #6
1Hobie
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Cool!

You've a good grip on getting back into the sport!

Hope you and your wife have a great time shooting together.

Hobie
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Old January 12, 2012, 11:16 PM   #7
kraigwy
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[quote]Advice wanted on getting ready for a bulls eye league [quote]

PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you the USAMU Pistol Marksmanship Guide in .pdf format.

Study it.
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Old January 13, 2012, 09:28 AM   #8
springer99
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Sounds like you're shooting the standard 25yd National Match course of fire. Using iron sights is fine if you're starting out. If you want to jump in with red-dots then I'd suggest using the original Ultra-dot on your springfield(if you still have the mount). You can get by with a much less expensive Red-dot on the Buckmark. An inexpensive Red-dot won't hold up very long on the .45.

With the .45ACP a 185gr or 200gr LSWC running at about 750-800fps is what you want, and will be alot more manageable than ball ammo.

For the .22, give CCI standard velocity a try.

Welcome back to a great game.
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Old January 13, 2012, 10:10 AM   #9
Sarge
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I think it's kinda cool to shoot bullseye with basic, fixed sight 1911s. You ain't gonna run any real aces off the line with one, but it will improve your overall shooting immensely and it's all kinds of fun. Having your gun perfectly zeroed will go a long way toward making it an even more enjoyable experience.

Personally, I'd pick a load and carefully zero the gun to it and the longest distance I expected to shoot. The only things required are a hammer, drift punch, file and a bottle of cold blue. Do your zeroing from a solid rest and then shoot the gun again from your normal shooting position to confirm.

FWIW, I have found that Winchester 'white box' 230 grain ball or JHP, and a 200 grain LSWC over 5.0 of W231 (1.250 OAL) shoot real close to each other all the way to 50 yards.
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:17 AM   #10
JASmith
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I shot the 2700 matches a fair bit in the '60s and 70s. Drifted away only because the places I was at didn't host those matches, and I wasn't into postal shoots.

Having said that, welcome to a very interesting sport. As far as a spectator sport goes, it is about as boring as it gets. The participants, however, have enough mental and physical challenges to make it a lifetime sport!

The advice to build strength in your shooting arm is excellent. The advice of old timers was that the 1911 demands a firm grip to shoot well. My own experience was that the grip was tight enough that the rib pattern on the front and back of the grip transferred to my hand and fingers. Developing that kind of strength and endurance may mean that you will probably want to find one of those exercise aids that help strengthen the hand.

Some folks went so far as to hang weights from the magazine for dry-fire practice. Others poured lead into an old magazine. You'd be amazed by how much and extra pound or so during dry-fire improves one's endurance during slow-fire.

Trigger squeeze will become important. The out-of-box 1911 tends to have a very heavy trigger and occasionally a bit of creep. A better trigger or gunsmith work to improve yours would be the second investment, with the first being the sights you choose to use.

After that a match barrel and bushing would be useful. Before that step, I would advise that you shoot the Buckmark enough in practice sessions to get a feel at how good your shooting might be with a properly tuned 1911.

Another trick available now but not 40 years ago is to have a laser boresight in the barrel of your pistol during dry fire. Work your trigger squeeze to the point where the only movement seen in the spot on the target or wall is that caused by the trigger fall. That won't be more than an inch or so at 25 yards.

The challenges of Bullseye rapid fire are overrated. There is time to single-action a revolver and to squeeze the trigger during the five shot sequence and to get 8 or 9 shots out of the ten ring. A semiauto is even easier.

Last -- by all means use low velocity semi-wadcutter ammunition or load your own. Use the 230 gr "Ball" ammunition only when match rules require it. The ammunition accuracy will be more or less the same, but precisely controlling the pistol when shooting ball ammo is a lot more challenging!
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Old January 14, 2012, 04:01 AM   #11
ronz
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Can’t thank you guys enough I really appreciate the help
So far I Loaded up 5 different rounds for the 230gr 5 to 7gr unique running from 600 to 800 fps
But will pick up some 185gr swc as soon as I run across some
My powder and primers are really old but have been told as long as the powder was kept in its original containers & dry it didn’t matter will find out tomorrow when I test them from a rest
My book is pretty old but lists unique or bullseye the best for light loads and unique or hs-6 for the 230gr but w231 seems to be the most popular powder? so may get that if I need new powder
Don’t know how? but my friend broke the scope mount when we were at the range that’s how it ended up on the sks thought I found a used one locally so didn’t order a new one but think he may have changed his mind about selling it
But I like the idea of using iron sights even if just to improve my skills I never thought about blacking out the 3 dots and filing the sights to raise or lower the impact so no biggie if he don’t want to sell it anymore what ya think max 300 points so anything over a 200 average something to be really proud of with iron sights or would the mark be higher than that?
My trigger is well worn in after a few thousand rounds pretty smooth for a stock trigger
I thought about polishing her buckmarks trigger at first but the more I think about it would be better off not doing anything like that so soon
Was thinking with 22s being so dirty cleaning the trigger real good then using some powdered graphite on the trigger? Or would oil or grease be better?
And fatigue is something else I totally forgot about when I shot before I was 23 and just out of the army so still in pretty good shape 100 pushups no problem now I would be in the emergency room if I even tried to do one I drove a truck Back then for a living and would try to see how long I could hold my arm out straight Or was using one of the grip things that was the most important thing I did to improve my score back then
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Old January 14, 2012, 10:16 AM   #12
JASmith
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I would hesitate before blackening your sights.

I shot in an indoor league when I was in college, and a guy from the Navy who was pretty good offered to blacken the front sight on my S&W Model 29. Yup! it was (and is) a 44 Magnum, but I was using lighter loads than the 45 guys and that Model 29 with the 8.375" barrel weighs a lot.

He used a carbide lantern to blacken the front sight. This turned out to be a mistake, because he melted and carbonized the red plastic insert on the front sight! It did not affect the accuracy but the appearance was hit.

The pistol has seen a lot of use since then and shows a fair bit of wear, so 40 years later I don't feel so hurt.

I have also shot pistols with the three-dot sights. You can ignore the dots and line up the sights the conventional way, so blackening them may not be necessary. You will likely go to formal target sights in a year or two when the competition bug really bites you anyway!

Similarly, filing the sights mean that they will no longer be what they were. One should be sure of what he wants or needs before doing that.

Before filing those sights, I recommend you first concentrate on shooting good groups. What do I mean by good groups? Any group small enough to be covered by the 25 yard slow-fire bullseye is a good group. Get the group to be good enough before even attempting to center it on target. After that, try Kentucky Windage and Tennessee Elevation to move the group closer to target. Only then are you ready to make adjustments that might be permanent changes to your sights.

In all cases, the top of the front sight needs to be precisely level with the top of the rear sight. There should be an equal amount of light showing between the blade and the sides of the notch. For all practical purposes, this alignment is more important than where the pistol is actually pointed on the target.

Some folks like to shoot these competitions using a center-hold. A center hold has the top of the sights aligned with the center of the target. This hold might be good enough to get a good group.

The best hold I've seen, and I use it exclusively even in my informal pistol shooting, is the six O'Clock hold. In this one, I imagine resting the bullseye on top of the precisely aligned sights.

Why do I like this hold better? This hold gives more precise aiming references. The thinning whitespace as you see the bottom of the black circle helps get precise vertial alignment because you want the space to drop to a consistently narrow thickness. For me, it's about a quarter to half-inch at 25 yards. Further, being able to see the bottom of the bull lets you center it on top of the blade.

What's the difference in precision? For me in the '60s and '70s, I could fairly easily get all the shots in the 8-ring with the center hold. The Six O'clock hold meant I could get more than 90 shots out of 100 inside the 9 ring, with the occasional score of 100 for ten shots. I could also get one hole 5-shot groups about one in every five or so groups. Getting a 10-X was more challenging because the group also has to be precisely centered. I don't remember getting one but was otherwise reasonably competitive.
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Old January 14, 2012, 01:57 PM   #13
ronz
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I was just going to use a sharpie to blacken them did ignore them to see if it changed the point of impact it didn’t but I’m so used to using them really had to concentrate to ignore them
Will be leaving in a little bit to pick up the wife’s gun and hope to be able to make it to the range today
And will have to see how the new rounds hit I haven’t shot much in the last few years but did group pretty good and was right on target with the home defense rounds so hope it wasn’t me
Wife is yelling have to go to get her gun
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Old January 16, 2012, 10:06 AM   #14
ronz
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Picked up her gun some 185 swc and made it to the range
her browning is sweet just need to put the red dot on it find what round it likes the best and she will be ready to go
The new rounds I made up did a lot better best was with 6 gr there hitting at 9 o’clock 4” from x no problem going with iron anymore still have to test the 185 swc the target is a lot bigger than I thought it would be. The range was shorter where I shot before Think the targets were about 10” x 12” back then
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