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Old January 9, 2012, 12:50 PM   #1
shrewd
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a zeroing question regarding 30-06

Hey guys, so i've been doing some informal events with my carbine lately and on a whim entered a new event locally calling itself a 2gun rifle event, with carbine and 'precision rifle'

my roommate is kind enough to let me shoot his 1903 sporter with its glorious leupold scope to acompany my ar, and good news, as the range limit is 600 yards (400 longer than i've ever had the opportunity to shoot)

i shot 15 or so rounds through it this past saturday and its zeroed jusssst a tad high at 100 yards. now the event will have shots from 200 to 600 yards so im wondering if anything here has some trajectory info on the thirty aught.

my only other experience with this round is m2 ball out of my garand, and for this event the ammo i have to use is prvi partisan 165 grain, i believe
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Old January 9, 2012, 01:13 PM   #2
Flatbush Harry
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If you're using factory loads, go to the manufacturer's website. Remington, for example, has a ballistic calculator that shows the ballistics for all their factory ammo for precisely this purpose.

I sight my .30-06s in for a 200 yd zero...which means about 1-3/4" high at 100 yes with a 168gr bullet (my preferred .30-06 bullet weight).


Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R30061 Remington® Express® 125 Pointed Soft Point 9 1/2 0.268
RL30062 Remington® Managed Recoil® 125 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.267
PRSC3006C Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 150 Swift™ Scirocco™ Bonded 9 1/2 0.435
PRA3006A Premier® AccuTip™ 150 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 0.415
R30062 Remington® Express® 150 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.314
R30063 Remington® Express® 150 Bronze Point™ 9 1/2 0.365
PRC3006A Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 150 Core-Lokt® Ultra Bonded 9 1/2 0.331
L30062 UMC® 150 Metal Case 9 1/2
PRA3006B Premier® AccuTip™ 165 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 0.447
R3006B Remington® Express® 165 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.339
PRC3006B Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 168 Core-Lokt® Ultra Bonded 9 1/2 0.356
PRA3006C Premier® AccuTip™ 180 AccuTip™ Boat Tail 9 1/2 0.480
PG30064 Remington® Premier Green® 180 Lapua Naturalis 9 1/2 0.302
RS3006A Premier® A-Frame 180 A-Frame™ Pointed Soft Point 9 1/2 0.377
PRSC3006B Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 180 Swift™ Scirocco™ Bonded 9 1/2 0.500
PRC3006C Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 180 Core-Lokt® Ultra Bonded 9 1/2 0.402
R30064 Remington® Express® 180 Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.248
R30065 Remington® Express® 180 Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.383
R30066 Remington® Express® 180 Bronze Point™ 9 1/2 0.412
R30067 Remington® Express® 220 Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.294
Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 125 3140 2780 2447 2138 1853 1595
Remington® Managed Recoil® 125 2660 2335 2034 1757 1509 1300
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 150 2910 2696 2492 2298 2111 1934
Premier® AccuTip™ 150 2910 2686 2473 2270 2077 1893
Remington® Express® 150 2910 2617 2342 2083 1843 1622
Remington® Express® 150 2910 2656 2416 2189 1974 1773
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 150 2910 2631 2368 2121 1889 1674
UMC® 150 2910 2617 2342
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 2800 2597 2403 2217 2039 1870
Remington® Express® 165 2800 2534 2283 2047 1825 1621
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 168 2800 2546 2306 2079 1866 1668
Premier® AccuTip™ 180 2725 2539 2360 2188 2024 1867
Remington® Premier Green® 180 2665 2337 2108 1856 1626 1422
Premier® A-Frame 180 2700 2465 2243 2032 1833 1648
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 180 2700 2522 2351 2186 2028 1878
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 180 2700 2480 2270 2070 1882 1704
Remington® Express® 180 2700 2348 2023 1727 1466 1251
Remington® Express® 180 2700 2469 2250 2042 1846 1663
Remington® Express® 180 2700 2485 2280 2084 1899 1725
Remington® Express® 220 2410 2130 1870 1632 1422 1246
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge_Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 125 2736 2145 1662 1269 953 706
Remington® Managed Recoil® 125 1964 1513 1148 856 632 469
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 150 2820 2421 2069 1758 1485 1246
Premier® AccuTip™ 150 2820 2403 2037 1716 1436 1193
Remington® Express® 150 2820 2281 1827 1445 1131 876
Remington® Express® 150 2820 2349 1944 1596 1298 1047
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 150 2820 2305 1868 1498 1188 933
UMC® 150 2820 2281 1827
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 2872 2470 2115 1800 1523 1281
Remington® Express® 165 2872 2352 1909 1534 1220 963
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 168 2924 2418 1984 1613 1299 1037
Premier® AccuTip™ 180 2967 2576 2226 1914 1637 1393
Remington® Premier Green® 180 2838 2258 1775 1377 1057 808
Premier® A-Frame 180 2913 2429 2010 1650 1343 1085
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 180 2913 2542 2208 1910 1644 1409
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 180 2913 2457 2059 1713 1415 1161
Remington® Express® 180 2913 2203 1635 1192 859 625
Remington® Express® 180 2913 2436 2023 1666 1362 1105
Remington® Express® 180 2913 2468 2077 1736 1441 1189
Remington® Express® 220 2837 2216 1708 1301 988 758
Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 125 0.0 0.6 zero -1.9 -5.2 -10.1
Remington® Managed Recoil® 125 -1.2 zero -1.7 -5.2 -10.9 -18.9
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 150 0.1 0.7 zero -2.0 -5.3 -10.2
Premier® AccuTip™ 150 0.1 0.7 zero -2.0 -5.4 -10.3
Remington® Express® 150 0.2 0.7 zero -2.2 -5.9 -11.4
Remington® Express® 150 0.2 0.7 zero -2.0 -5.6 -10.8
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 150 0.2 0.7 zero -2.1 -5.8 -11.2
UMC® 150 -0.2 zero -1.1 -3.6 -7.7 -13.6
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 0.2 0.8 zero -2.1 -5.9 -11.1
Remington® Express® 165 0.3 0.8 zero -2.3 -6.3 -12.1
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 168 0.3 0.8 zero -2.3 -6.2 -11.9
Premier® AccuTip™ 180 0.3 0.8 zero -2.3 -6.1 -11.6
Remington® Premier Green® 180 1.3 1.4 zero -3.2 -8.3 -15.6
Premier® A-Frame 180 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.2 -8.9 -15.4
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 180 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.0 -8.3 -14.2
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 180 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.2 -8.7 -15.1
Remington® Express® 180 0.0 zero -1.5 -4.9 -10.3 -18.3
Remington® Express® 180 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.2 -8.8 -15.4
Remington® Express® 180 0.0 zero -1.3 -4.2 -8.7 -15.0
Remington® Express® 220 0.1 zero -2.0 -6.2 -12.9 -22.4
Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 125 1.5 1.4 zero -2.8 -7.4 -22.4 -47.6
Remington® Managed Recoil® 125 1.1 zero -3.0 -8.0 -15.5 -37.4 -78.7
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 150 1.6 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.3 -21.1 -42.3
Premier® AccuTip™ 150 1.7 1.5 zero -2.9 -7.4 -21.5 -43.7
Remington® Express® 150 1.8 1.6 zero -3.2 -8.2 -24.4 -50.9
Remington® Express® 150 1.7 1.5 zero -3.0 -7.7 -22.7 -46.6
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 150 1.8 1.6 zero -3.1 -8.0 -23.8 -49.3
UMC® 150
Premier® AccuTip™ 165 1.8 1.6 zero -3.2 -7.9 -22.8 -46.2
Remington® Express® 165 2.0 1.7 zero -3.4 -8.7 -25.9 -53.2
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 168 1.9 1.7 zero -3.3 -8.5 -25.1 -51.7
Premier® AccuTip™ 180 0.9 2.0 zero -3.3 -8.2 -23.7 -47.7
Remington® Premier Green® 180 3 2.4 zero -4.3 -10.9 -31.9 -66.2
Premier® A-Frame 180 2.1 1.8 zero -3.6 -9.1 -26.6 -54.4
Premier® Scirocco™ Bonded 180 2.0 1.7 zero -3.3 -8.3 -23.9 -47.9
Premier® Core-Lokt® Ultra 180 2.1 1.8 zero -3.5 -8.9 -25.8 -52.7
Remington® Express® 180 2.4 2.1 zero -4.3 -11.0 -33.8 -72.8
Remington® Express® 180 2.1 1.8 zero -3.5 -9.0 -26.3 -54.0
Remington® Express® 180 2.1 1.8 zero -3.5 -8.8 -25.5 -52.0
Remington® Express® 220 1.3 zero -3.5 -9.5 -18.4 -46.4 -91.6

Easier to read on their site, ballistics calculator found under "Resources"

FH
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Old January 9, 2012, 01:17 PM   #3
taylorce1
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Good Luck!

Without knowing the actual speed of the bullet leaving the barrel you are going to have to work it out at the range. If you don't have time to do that before the competition then your going to have a learning experience on your hands. You can take a guess and run it through a ballistics calculator and hope you come close.
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Old January 9, 2012, 01:30 PM   #4
Pointer
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The muzzle velocity and bullet weight of your ammo is absolutely critical in calculating trajectory.

Both Remington and Winchester have free online ballistic calculators for their brand ammo.

http://www.google.com/search?q=balli...ient=firefox-a

The 165 is just OK... a heavier bullet will bless you at the longer distances.
A 168 grain Match Ammo would be better.

The bulls-eye size may be different at various ranges... which will make some difference in the POI if your POA is consistent.

Depending on the target size(s), you wood possibly do well to zero at a longer distance... perhaps 300 yards or even more. This MIGHT be helpful in keeping your overall trajectory a little flatter... about 4.5" high at 100 yards should be ABOUT a 335 - 350 yard zero.

If you are shooting for "hit or miss" (like silhouettes) anywhere in the target "kill" zone... you will find a "pipe zero" (aka "point blank zero") is very effective... If you are shooting for precision for total points, a Pipe Zero is NOT the way to go.

Much depends on the sights you're using... a ballistic reticle in a scope is very good. An ammo specific turreted scope is even better. In this case, do not use pipe or Kentucky elevation corrections!! simply rely on the scope dope and keep the same POA. (Sight picture)

For now, keep it simple... you can learn more from the people around you as you go along. Just get the trajectories from the site listed below and tape it on your stock for a "kwiky" reference..

Too much crap takes the fun out of it... fall in love with the game first, then you can complicate the "marriage".

http://www.google.com/search?q=balli...ient=firefox-a
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Last edited by Pointer; January 9, 2012 at 01:55 PM.
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Old January 9, 2012, 02:09 PM   #5
emcon5
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Go here and put in the info for the ammo and conditions.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Pay close attention to the fields for sight height, elevation and temp as they make a big difference in long range shooting. Not all online calculators include these fields, and it does make a difference.

Here is a PDF File of a dope sheet I made for my M1 with M2 Ball ammo, at ~300ft elevation. It should put you in the ballpark, but the elevation will be off because a scope is mounted higher than the iron sights on the Garand, but the wind should be close with just about any 150 grain 30-06 loading.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...3&d=1316801704
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Old January 9, 2012, 02:14 PM   #6
Buzzcook
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Not sure how this competition works.

If you get a ranging shot or two, it'll make life a lot easier.

If you have the chance to adjust the scope between targets, then zero at 200yds and learn the number of clicks you need for subsequent distances.

If you can't adjust the scope, zero at 200yds, then learn the target, where do you have to move your point of aim given bullet drop.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

Figuring out wind drift is the hard part.
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Old January 9, 2012, 04:09 PM   #7
shrewd
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from what i understand scope adjustments can me made whenever, except for the final stage where you must use 600 yard dope for your rifle and estimate how low or high you need to hold.

however i dont know just how precise i need to me. honestly im probably going to read a few of these ballistic charts for similar grain ammo and sorta wing it based on what the hits are like. since alot of the targets we are transitioning from a carbine, i think it only hits count sorta deal. or it will be IDPA targets at 400 yards say, 10 torso hits with carbine (yikes on my m4's sight radius...) then transition for 5 or so head shots with the rifle.

in fact, here's the course of fire:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=1&output=html
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Old January 9, 2012, 04:10 PM   #8
shrewd
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part of me feels i'm in over my head with the precision stuff, and i totally am, but i've never had the chance to shoot 600 yards and i don't think i will for quite some time, so hey it'll be a fun and certainly humbling experience.


regardless, its more trigger time
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Old January 10, 2012, 07:33 PM   #9
Buzzcook
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Don't worry about being in over your head. No one starts out anything as an expert.

You're going to need better help than I can give to work ot a strategy for that course. See if you can talk to the people who are setting it up and other competitors.

I competed in a small way when I was a kid. I found that the other shooters were more than willing to help out the new guy.

The main thing is to have fun.
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