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Old January 9, 2012, 07:06 PM   #26
mehavey
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MLeake, it engenders quite a false sense of security to imply anything other than life-changing legal issues, both criminal & civil, after a shooting regardless of circumstances. I'm not going to parse words, mince words or dice words -- or even fall back in words. Too many of my fellow grads are in the legal & the police game and we've gone around this problem for many years.

Advice to HangGlider: First, stay out of those situations where the Reasonable Man might expect to need a weapon if all all possible. Second, flee if at all possible. Third, give what the BG's might want -- unless it's reasonably clear that you should fear harm even after giving over. Fourth, if your gun comes out, use it center mass -- no fiddling around. Fifth, give the cops the basic facts.

Sixth, get a lawyer on retainer no matter what.
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Old January 9, 2012, 07:27 PM   #27
MLeake
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mehavey, I am not suggesting it is not a very serious proposition. I am suggesting that your "you will definitely" go through a jury trial is an inaccurate statement.

It is also inaccurate to say a lawyer will probably own all one's stuff, unless you are in a very unfriendly jurisdiction, or unless the shooting looks suspicious.

In places like FL and GA, in a clearly good defensive shooting, not only should one not be charged, but one is indemnified against civil suit by the BG and his family.

Otherwise, I think your advice has been pretty good. (And the parts I disagree with do become more likely to go your way in some other jurisdictions.)

Shooting should be the last option.

Last edited by MLeake; January 10, 2012 at 03:46 PM. Reason: FL and GA, not FL in GA...
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Old January 9, 2012, 07:40 PM   #28
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Old January 10, 2012, 01:27 AM   #29
Hook686
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Quote:
Disparity of force is a factor. If one is attacked by a gang, of any age, the disparity of force would be justification if you feared for your life or great bodily harm. So I just do not worry about such things in any state I go to.
I do not think this is true in California. The fear must be the fear a reasonable person would feel in similar situation. The jury will decide if the fear reached that level. As pointed out, a different decision is most likely in San Francisco than in Dallas under similar conditions.
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Old January 10, 2012, 04:06 AM   #30
hangglider
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How would you react? Here's what happened to the police just up the street from where I live--though probably not a gang related action. http://www.nooga.com/151312/track-29...opening-night/
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Old January 10, 2012, 08:28 AM   #31
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Thanks for the heads-up, Hanglider - that's information I really need to know.
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Old January 10, 2012, 09:22 AM   #32
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You're welcome Skans.
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Old January 10, 2012, 03:35 PM   #33
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Attempted Disarming

If someone is attempting to disarm you--what are the consequences if he succeeds? In my opinion, you are justified in shooting someone attempting to get your gun in most instances. The cops do it all the time. Now, if you are 6'4" and 260 pounds and your assailant is 14 years old and 105 pounds, then please disregard the second sentence.
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Old January 10, 2012, 07:14 PM   #34
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Just a personal decision, . . . since I am 67, have some physical limitations, and really don't plan on being someone elses victim, . . . I would probably be a bit more prone to go for my 1911 than many others.

Any perceived life/death threat or approaching scenario wherein I see it unfolding, . . . my 1911 is coming out of it's holster, . . . that is why I carry it.

When I do, it will be done by turning so it is away from the threat, . . . and may never be seen by the other person. There are any number of scenarios I can envision where I would have the weapon out, . . . and nothing happen other than my putting it away.

I made my mind up early in this that if necessary, . . . I'd much rather be charged with a "brandishing" charge, . . . than visit my local undertaker. That is MY decision, however, . . . and may very well not be good for everyone.

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Old January 11, 2012, 08:49 AM   #35
Skans
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If you reasonably feel that your life could be in danger from threat of an attack, then either 1) get ready to draw your gun from concealment or 2) draw your gun from concealment and have it ready to fire. The circumstances, distances, number of potential attackers, etc. will dictate which action to take.

It's really not that complex.

I was at a gas station last night pumping gas. Its in an area known to for the occasional hold-up (not a real bad area of town, but stuff happens there). I get gas there from time to time and have seen "hinkey" people hanging around. Several guys on motorcycles (I have nothing against motorcycles, I've got one) pull up. I'm standing at the pump, just observing them, all the while my hand is in my pocket resting on the butt of my LC9 while I'm waiting for my tank to fill up. I'm just standing there, so I run some scenarios through my mind - just good practice to do this. As usual, nothing happens and my gun remains concealed. But, I know in my mind that I was prepared if something were to happen.

For me, being prepared for a potential attack is a way of thinking. It's like playing chess: what moves can your potential attacker make; how can you counter; what will be the possible reactions; what are your options; what outcome do you want? In the game of life, I'll go for a stalemate every time.
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Old January 14, 2012, 12:05 AM   #36
Crankgrinder
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large roving hordes of gang members was the ops original post.
and we all know what gangs and gang members are known for. I certainly am rolling the dice on this one but it has been brought to my attention quite a few times at least here in Texas that any more that three (3) individuals behaving violently constitutes gang violence and also Texas is a no retreat state if someone is threatening you you have the right to plant your boots where you stand. There have been too many instances where one was mugged, complied and was shot anyway, there have also been gang initiations where people have been shot at random with no provocation. If i were mugged by a gang of individuals, armed as usual with the same number of shots i might take my chance that a couple might be pretty mean, the rest just prospects put up to the job to prove themselves, i might also take the chance that they are not combat vets and when they see a head or two come apart theyll remember that they dont want to die.
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Old January 15, 2012, 02:10 AM   #37
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hangglider,

There are some NRA courses that you ought to read up on.
http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx
Use the above link and read the course descriptions of the three listed courses below.

You might want to progress through those three. The "Basic" course is a prerequisite for the "In the Home" course, which is a prerequisite for the "Outside the Home" course.

NRA Basic Pistol Shooting Course
NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course
NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside The Home Course

Both the "In the Home" and the "Outside the Home" courses have an hour taught by either a lawyer or a LEO who is competent to teach the relevant legal issues pertaining to the two courses.

Once you have completed all three courses, you have been exposed to the many factors which you should consider before venturing forth armed in your jurisdiction.

These courses are not meant to be training like you get at Gunsite or Thunder ranch. Actual range time for all of the three noted NRA courses is a small portion of the courses.
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