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Old January 10, 2012, 02:17 AM   #1
Ctrain
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Laws of purchasing handguns..

Hey everyone,

So I am pretty new to handguns, and to the rules about purchasing and all of that stuff. My roommate (we are currently in school in Seattle Washington) is a resident of Oregon. So, this means he cannot purchase a gun in the state of Washington, is that correct?

Well, anyway, long story short, he found a CZ 85 he has been wanting for a very long time at the local gun shop, for a reasonable deal. However, he cannot buy it himself from the shop, as far as I know. Now, he asked me a question that I truly don't know the answer to, but he is fairly certain it is okay. He wants one of our friends (who are WA state residents) to buy the handgun for him, then to a person to person purchase transfer type thing. He is under the assumption that that is okay, but I am not thinking so. He says "how do they even know I am not a WA state resident? My drivers licence or something?" I just don't really have the answers, and would like you guys to help me with info so that I can explain to him why this is a very bad idea...thank you all in advance for your help.
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Old January 10, 2012, 02:26 AM   #2
Xfire68
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I believe that he can buy it but, he has to have it shipped to a FFL in OR after he filled out the proper paperwork and the background check clears.

If you do what you mentioned with having a friend buy it for him that is called a STRAW purchase and that is a no no.
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Old January 10, 2012, 02:37 AM   #3
Ctrain
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Hm, so he could buy it but he would have to go back to Oregon to get it? Yeah, I told him he could do something like that but he said he won't be going home for quite a while so that won't work. So there really is no way, is that correct?
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Old January 10, 2012, 02:41 AM   #4
Ctrain
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Sorry for double post, but I found a site with some well stated firearms laws, so I have some information to show him. Thank you for the help, man.
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Old January 10, 2012, 08:30 AM   #5
kalevatom
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I suggest you start here:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41
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Old January 10, 2012, 08:51 AM   #6
musher
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Having a friend buy it and transfer it to him is definitely not legal under federal law.

1. He can buy and transfer through an FFL in Oregon

2. He can just go buy one in Oregon.

3. He can establish residency in WA. Note that for federal purposes, you can have more than one state of residence and be legal to purchase firearms in each state. Not sure how documentation works for that.

My sense is that he's not very serious about this. Oregon is a short weekend or a long day trip away from Seattle.

DON'T LET YOUR FRIEND'S LAZINESS SADDLE YOU OR ONE OF YOUR FRIENDS WITH A FELONY CONVICTION!

Tell him to take a road trip already or quit whining.
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Old January 10, 2012, 09:59 AM   #7
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Well I know people who have vacation homes in a certain state can purchase guns in that state. So maybe you can. Otherwise just have the dealer ship it to an FFL in your state.
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Old January 10, 2012, 12:27 PM   #8
Tom Servo
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Quote:
Well I know people who have vacation homes in a certain state can purchase guns in that state.
This is correct. If your friend maintains residence in Washington, and has a state-issue Washington ID of some sort with that address, he can legally use that on question 2.

Having someone else buy the gun for him could be construed as a straw purchase, and that's ten years in the pokey.
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Old January 10, 2012, 01:05 PM   #9
Don H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Servo
Having someone else buy the gun for him could be construed as a straw purchase, and that's ten years in the pokey.
Could be another 5 years on top of that for conspiracy if the AUSA is having a particularly bad day:
Quote:
18 USC 371
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense
against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any
agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of
such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy,
each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
five years, or both.
If, however, the offense, the commission of which is the object
of the conspiracy, is a misdemeanor only, the punishment for such
conspiracy shall not exceed the maximum punishment provided for
such misdemeanor.
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Old January 10, 2012, 02:37 PM   #10
raimius
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You cannot conduct transfers between residents of different states without going through an FFL (legally speaking), so no only would your friend be making a straw purchase, but conducting an illegal transfer as well.
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Old January 10, 2012, 02:59 PM   #11
EOD Guy
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As far as the BATF and Federal law are concerned, the roommate is a Washington resident while living in Washington and going to school. When he returns to Oregon, he becomes an Oregon resident.

See the link for ATF Ruling 80-21.

ATF Ruling 80-21
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Old January 10, 2012, 08:45 PM   #12
Eagleks
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That's very state specific and on top of that.... you are talking bordering states, which then have another set of rules. Best to check a local FFL that can answer the question.
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Old January 10, 2012, 10:24 PM   #13
EOD Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagleks
That's very state specific and on top of that.... you are talking bordering states, which then have another set of rules. Best to check a local FFL that can answer the question.
As far as the BATF is concerned, the rules for bordering states are the same as those for states on opposite coasts. The Federal contiguose state regulations were recinded over 20 years ago.

State laws may apply but I don't see anything in Washington laws that apply.
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Old January 11, 2012, 09:47 AM   #14
Glenn E. Meyer
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When I lived in OR, I saw a gun I wanted in a WA store. Had it sent to an OR store. Easy to do. I'm sure the WA store might have a recommendation in OR.
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Old January 11, 2012, 11:06 PM   #15
Ctrain
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Awesome, great info here guys, I checked the links and showed him the cold hard facts. Also told him I nor any of our friends will not being doing time in the big house for his gun lol, he figures he will try to establish residency here in WA so he can buy the gun. I guess it is as easy as him going to the department of licensing and getting a WA state drivers license, who woulda known

So that bullet has been dodged,

Thanks for all of your help guys, great info, really appreciate it. He is now happy as well because he doesn't have to drive ~3.5 hours down to Portland to pick up a gun he could drive 20 minutes for, lol. Laziness is a killer, aye?
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Old January 11, 2012, 11:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
...you are talking bordering states, which then have another set of rules.
Not for handguns at all per federal law. Handguns can't be sold across state lines period. Only from an FFL in a state to a resident of that state or third party from one resident of the state to another.

Long guns can be sold across state lines per federal law (as long as an FFL is involved), but only if the sale would be legal in BOTH states involved. Some states still have the contiguous state exception in their state laws, some don't allow it at all.
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Old January 12, 2012, 11:49 AM   #17
Frank Ettin
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Here's the whole deal (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:
Quote:
18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
....

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
...
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