The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 6, 2012, 01:18 AM   #1
Nickel Plated
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 529
Carry in NYC under H.R. 882?

Just have a question about H.R. 882 (The national reciprocity bill)

As many may know, N.Y.C. technically allows CCW to anyone who holds a NYC Carry Permit (which is separate from a NYS carry permit, which is not valid in NYC) However, as far as the government is concerned, noone has a "good reason" to get the permit, making it effectively a ban in anything but name.

Now from what I understand, certain states issue Non-Resident Permits to people who do not actually reside in that state. Under H.R. 882 since all permits would be valid anywhere in the country where CCW is allowed (which is in NYC technically) Could a NYC resident get a Non-Resident Permit from a different state and use it to carry in NYC?

Would be an interesting way to stick it to Bloomy.
Nickel Plated is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 06:02 AM   #2
Glenn Dee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,487
King Bloomburg also refuse to honor HR218 (LEOSA?). Retired police officers have had their firearms confiscated by NYPD. You have to understand that Bloomburg truely believes that he's king of NY and there is no power above his... The man is a control freak.
Glenn Dee is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 07:05 AM   #3
AirForceShooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2005
Location: Sarasota (sort of) Florida
Posts: 1,185
NYC and the Port Authority have also refiused to recognize FOPA.
They have been warned by the US Justice Dept. a number of times.

AFS
__________________
'Qui tacet consentit': To remain silent is to consent.
AirForceShooter is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 08:54 AM   #4
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickel Plated
. . . .Under H.R. 882 since all permits would be valid anywhere in the country where CCW is allowed (which is in NYC technically) Could a NYC resident get a Non-Resident Permit from a different state and use it to carry in NYC?
I don't have the text of the bill in front of me, but I think the answer is, "no." As I recall, the bill contains language to the effect of "other than a resident." So a NYC resident would still have to get a NYC permit, but someone with an out-of-state residence & permit could CCW.
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 09:45 AM   #5
Nickel Plated
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 17, 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NYC
Posts: 529
Yeah Bloomberg does have a history of just telling the law to go suck eggs and cramming his agenda through anyway.

Quote:
So a NYC resident would still have to get a NYC permit, but someone with an out-of-state residence & permit could CCW.
I love haw NYC treats it's tourists better than it's citizens.
Nickel Plated is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 10:01 AM   #6
Spats McGee
Staff
 
Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,037
I've underlined the specific text:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Congress
(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--

‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
So, to shorten it up: a person who is not prohibited by Federal law . . . who is carrying a valid identification . . .and a valid license or permit . . . . which permits the person to carry . . . ., may possess or carry a concealed handgun . . . .in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--
__________________
A gunfight is not the time to learn new skills.

If you ever have a real need for more than a couple of magazines, your problem is not a shortage of magazines. It's a shortage of people on your side of the argument. -- Art Eatman
Spats McGee is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 11:26 AM   #7
Aguila Blanca
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 6,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats McGee
I don't have the text of the bill in front of me, but I think the answer is, "no." As I recall, the bill contains language to the effect of "other than a resident." So a NYC resident would still have to get a NYC permit, but someone with an out-of-state residence & permit could CCW.
I don't think HR 822 would require a NYC resident to get a NYC permit -- but there's no other way for a NYC resident to get a NYS permit, so it's a circular argument. But the original question was about carrying in NYC with a non-resident permit from another state. I didn't catch on that the question was seeking a loophole for NYC residents. Either way, as I read the text of the proposed law it was based on having a valid home state permit, so a non-wesident permit from some place like Florida or Utah would not help a NYC resident OR a Chicago resident to carry in NYC.

Last edited by Aguila Blanca; January 6, 2012 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Can't type for [bleep]
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 11:41 AM   #8
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,409
Quote:
King Bloomburg also refuse to honor HR218 (LEOSA?). Retired police officers have had their firearms confiscated by NYPD.
I'd like to see more on this. My understanding that those carrying per the LEOSA have no problems in NYC. Too many cities got burned violating that law.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 11:49 AM   #9
jimbob86
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2007
Location: All the way to NEBRASKA
Posts: 6,757
If a non-resident permit will work in NYC, then there will be more Utah permits for NYC residents than in Utah.....

Quote:
NYC and the Port Authority have also refiused to recognize FOPA.
They have been warned by the US Justice Dept. a number of times.
If the Feudal Lords of NYC have ignored FOPA (since 1986) and LEOSA (since 2004?) ..... just what makes anybody think anything passed/ruled on in Washington DC will mean anything? Short of throwing some of them in a Fed pen (yeah, like that's gonna happen!)?

It is the beginning of the end, friends, when the .gov is enforcing it's laws based on how easily the lawbreakers are to convince that they need to folow the law..... when the Public sees that they can ignore the law and get away with it just by sheer determination ...... that's the end of Civil Government.
__________________
TheGolden Rule of Tool Use: "If you don't know what you are doing, DON'T."

http://nefirearm.com/
jimbob86 is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 01:13 PM   #10
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,078
Quote:
Quote:
King Bloomburg also refuse to honor HR218 (LEOSA?). Retired police officers have had their firearms confiscated by NYPD.
Quote:
I'd like to see more on this. My understanding that those carrying per the LEOSA have no problems in NYC. Too many cities got burned violating that law.
Me, too. That would be a difficult policy to maintain, even for Bloomberg.

If this legislation passes, I would absolutely volunteer to be a test case. I think a publicized CCW march through Manhattan with a few thousand people would make the point very well.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 01:26 PM   #11
kraigwy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 16, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,409
Ref: the LEOSA, there is an outfit out of NJ made up of lawyers and cops that go around the country educating departments and officers (retired and otherwise) on the LEOSA.

Sheepdog Academy. Their website offers education material and court cases. No City or State has faired very well in violating the rights under the LEOSA.

I'm not sure, but it would seem to me if HR 882 passed local departments would find themselves in the same boat.
__________________
Kraig Stuart
CPT USAR Ret
USAMU Sniper School Oct '78
Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071
kraigwy is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 01:29 PM   #12
Don P
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,786
Quote:
I'd like to see more on this. My understanding that those carrying per the LEOSA have no problems in NYC. Too many cities got burned violating that law.
I don't want to be a test case. Being a former New Yorker I have absolutely no desire to spend any time in the Tombs or Rikers Island while the mess gets sorted out.

Quote:
If this legislation passes, I would absolutely volunteer to be a test case. I think a publicized CCW march through Manhattan with a few thousand people would make the point very well.
A night in the Tombs or Rikers would change that thought.
__________________
NRA Life Member, NRA Range Safety Officer, IDPA Safety Officer
As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.
Don P is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 02:18 PM   #13
Crazy88Fingers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 934
Quote:
If this legislation passes, I would absolutely volunteer to be a test case. I think a publicized CCW march through Manhattan with a few thousand people would make the point very well.
Before you do that, keep in mind how the NYPD has been treating unarmed "occupiers".
__________________
"And I'm tellin' you son, well it ain't no fun, staring straight down a .44"
-Lynyrd Skynyrd
Crazy88Fingers is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 02:43 PM   #14
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,187
As I have posted before-just stay out of NYC and NY..
langenc is offline  
Old January 6, 2012, 02:48 PM   #15
ammo.crafter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2006
Location: the Garden State
Posts: 765
Bloomburg

You mean the Bloomburg that singlehandedly disregarded the NYC laws and allowed himself the right to serve a third term as King of NYC?
__________________
"The Constitution is not an instrument for government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."
Patrick Henry, American Patriot
ammo.crafter is offline  
Old January 7, 2012, 03:49 AM   #16
Glenn Dee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 1,487
Yes Crafter.... thats the guy.
Glenn Dee is offline  
Old January 7, 2012, 05:07 AM   #17
Jim March
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
Posts: 7,306
If this federal bill passes, the really interesting case is Illinois.

That state claims to have no CCW system, therefore they skip the whole "let visitors pack" thing.

Except they're lying. IL *does* have a CCW system - the most elitist, restrictive in the nation.

All you have to do is get elected to high office, such as a Chicago City Alderman, and you get what they *claim* is a "law enforcement power" to pack.

Except they're lying about that too. Check the IL constitution - go find it, and search on the word "separation". Yup - just like the federal constitution, there's a separation of powers clause that says you cannot be both legislative and executive branch.

Alderman is legislative, at a local level of government. So they're packing on a CCW system.

So, if this passes, yeah, we'll be able to pack in IL assuming we're willing to challenge their fraudulent "no CCW here" claims.
__________________
Jim March
Jim March is offline  
Old January 7, 2012, 03:10 PM   #18
Paul B.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 28, 1999
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,619
Maybe this will help. It's kept pretty well up to date. It's easy to work. Just follow the instructions.

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html

Paul B.
__________________
COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!
Paul B. is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11240 seconds with 7 queries