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Old December 26, 2011, 10:17 AM   #1
thedaddycat
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C&R questions.

I was on another TFL forum and someone suggested that we come visit you here on C&R. So I thought OK I'll go over there and post a few pics. As I understand it, a C&R firearm has to be manufactured prior to 1-1-1899. In that case, I have two rifles that fit that criteria, and here they are:

Model 1895 Chilean Mauser in 7X57 bottom, Model 1898 Krag-Jorgenson in .30-40 Krag top. Both are first year of production (for that model) rifles. BTW, I got a new camera for Christmas (had to play with the new toy) and I think the close-ups came out pretty well...







I've read some of the posts here on C&R forum and I have a few questions about the whole C&R thing. Is there anything special about a C&R firearm, like that it's exempt from normal regulations or something? As I recall, I bought these rifles just like any other gun with the normal paperwork. Do I need to do anything like extra paperwork to have these rifles classified as C&R or is DoM enough?

Maybe I'm just not getting the whole point of C&R. I just like old military rifles and when the mood strikes me I take them out for "Old School Day" at the range and shoot them. Back before I needed glasses and could still see the tiny rear notch on my Swedish Mauser, I even hunted deer with it. Now that Mauser is dated 1905, so even though it's a Model 1896 with a pre-1899 design does that mean that it's not a C&R firearm?

Well anyhow, I enjoy these oldies no matter what their status and I hope you enjoy the pictures, too.
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Old December 26, 2011, 10:31 AM   #2
Don P
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OK here is a link to get your answers about C&R. Generaly firearms over 50 years old will be C&R BUT NOT ALL THE TIME.
www.atf.gov

Follow the links to C&R
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Old December 26, 2011, 11:48 AM   #3
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The 1899 date is for an "antique", not a Curio & Relic (C&R), and therefor considered a non-firearm by BATF.

Quote:
Q: What constitutes "antique" under U.S. law?

A: Although your State and local laws may vary, any firearm with a frame or receiver that actually made before Jan. 1, 1899 is legally "antique" and not considered a "firearm" under Federal law. This refers to the actual date of manufacture of the receiver/frame, not just model year or patent date marked. (For example, only ***low serial number*** Winchester Model 1894 lever actions are actually antique.) No FFL is required to buy or sell antiques across state lines. They are in the same legal category as a muzzle loading replica. I regularly ship them right to people's doorstep via UPS, with no "paper trail." Think of it as the last bastion of gun ownership and transfer privacy.
Quote:
Q: What is a firearm curio or relic?
Firearm curios or relics include firearms which have special value to collectors because they possess some qualities not ordinarily associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

Have been manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof; or
Be certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or
Derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or from the fact of their association with some historical figure, period, or event.
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Old December 26, 2011, 12:01 PM   #4
TX Hunter
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Nice Rifles,
The Craig rifle is pretty rare, you dont see them very often.
And the Chilean Mauser looks neat also, its very similar to my Spanish mauser.
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Old December 26, 2011, 01:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
The Craig rifle is pretty rare, you dont see them very often.
Too bad at some point a Bubba took a hacksaw to the stock. He turned a nice $700-$1000 collector into a $200-$300 "Sporter"
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Old December 26, 2011, 02:03 PM   #6
jonnyc
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For the love of Peat*, it's a KRAG.


Yes, I know it's Pete, just part of the humor.
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Old December 26, 2011, 03:26 PM   #7
Cheapshooter
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But they look so much better before Bubba gets them.


Or in the original carbine version.
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Old December 26, 2011, 08:24 PM   #8
thedaddycat
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Yeah, I don't like the Bubba modded ones either, but this is the only Krag rifle I can ever remember seeing on a rack so I got it. I'm in CT and I bought it at Kittery Trading Post in Maine back before you had to go FFL to FFL for out of state sales. Still, it shoots all right for an "antique non-firearm".

I guess I have two antiques and a handful of C&R rifles. I'll see about getting some pics of the others. I know I have them posted in other threads, but those pics were with the old camera. The new one should do a lot better as it's 14 megapixel vs. 1.5 megapixel.
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Old December 26, 2011, 10:15 PM   #9
rdmallory
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Nice Carbine, The last original one I seen the guy as asking $2500 fro it.

Most are cut down rifles. You can tell a real carbine by the C stamped on the sights and no sling swivels.

The hand guard alone on a rifle is worth $200-$300 so many were tossed.

Doug
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Old December 27, 2011, 09:04 PM   #10
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Don't get the wrong impression. Neither are mine, just fine examples of original Krags without the wonderful touch of Bubba!!!
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Old December 28, 2011, 08:23 AM   #11
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A C&R license allows you to buy the listed firearms without having to go through a FFL01 dealer. You can also get discounts on various firearms components. If you have already purchased your firearm through a FFL01 dealer than you should not list it as a C&R purchase. With a C& R license you have to maintain a secured location to store your firarms and that location is subject to local zoning and inspection by the BAFTE. You also have to maintain a written log of what C&R firearms you have purchased, from whom and who you have sold them to.
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Old December 28, 2011, 09:35 AM   #12
jonnyc
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"maintain a secured location to store your firarms and that location is subject to local zoning"

I don't recall the above as requirements for the 03 C&R.
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Old December 28, 2011, 02:17 PM   #13
Kentucky-75
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A C&R license is a collectors license to receive firearms classified as a C&R in interstate transport. With the C&R license you can receive C & R firearms though the mail from FFL's and other C&R holders from other states.

There are no pre-inspections nor visits by the BATF for perspective C&R licensees. (There have been reports that Nassau and Suffolk Counties in NY and in New Jersey that the BATF have conducted visits mainly to explain the legalities and limitations of a C&R license and this might have to do with local laws).

In some states like NJ, the C&R license is worthless because of NJ laws. In some other states (like NY and IL) , you can receive only C&R rifles, but not C&R pistols. Most other states, you can receive rifles and pistols with the C&R. The C&R license does NOT supersede State Gun Laws.

There are no requirements for secured storage for 03 C&R license holders. I believe there might be for the FFL 01 license.

The ATF does not normally do inspections of C&R holders, they CAN request an inspection and usually that entails them coming to your house and looking over your log book. Even then they usually call for an appointment.

BATF inspections for C&R holders are far and few in between. Some C&R holders had licenses for decades and never had an inspection according to the many forums that I have looked at.

The ATF DOES conduct regular inspections of FFL 01 holders and that includes compliance and record keeping. Zoning requirements are a consideration for getting a 01 FFL.

However this is not the case for a C&R 03 license since an 03 is not a license to conduct a business with, it is NOT a dealers license. It is strictly a collectors license that enables one to get C&R firearms interstate and through the mails.

Last edited by Kentucky-75; December 28, 2011 at 02:22 PM.
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Old January 2, 2012, 04:52 PM   #14
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03 C&R is the most expensive $30 you will ever spend.

Don't believe me?

Send off the paperwork and see how much you have picked out to spend by the time it arrives.

Doug
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Old January 2, 2012, 11:20 PM   #15
Cheapshooter
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Quote:
03 C&R is the most expensive $30 you will ever spend.

Don't believe me?

Send off the paperwork and see how much you have picked out to spend by the time it arrives.

Doug
Yep, soon your bound book starts looking like a phone book!!!
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