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Old January 5, 2012, 02:53 PM   #76
booker_t
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Eat lots of carrots and operate in the dark. A high intensity flashlight can be a huge tactical advantage.
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Old January 5, 2012, 03:56 PM   #77
Bartholomew Roberts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenner22
Here are some thoughts. When we are pie-ing a room with a flashlight, how is that not giving away your position when you have a flashlight?
OK, let's think this through. We are entering a room and "pieing" the room to clear the corners. That room is so dark that we can't use ambient light and dark adapted eyes to identify where a person might be or move, so an external light is necessary.

Now, unless the room/hallway I am exiting happens to be even darker still, I am going to be backlit as I move through the doorway. Even in relative darkness, I will stand out clearly to someone in the room. So is it better for the person in that room to see me; but I don't see him? Or is better for me to turn on a little can of sunshine as I move through that door that will cause his pupils to constrict and allow me to see into the darker room as well?

And yes, even in good conditions, clearing a house is dangerous. Even more in low-light. That is why people who do it for a living tend to have long guns, body armor, flashlights and friends with all of those things.

However, mostly you are describing poor tactics in using light as a reason not to use a light. A better approach is to get some formal training in when and how to use a light, and then use it that way.
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Old January 5, 2012, 07:46 PM   #78
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Mr Roberts, you have some good points. I wonder, however, if flashlight techniques are more valuable for law enforcement applications or when the power is out as opposed to a homeowner searching his own house for a potential burglar? I don't have the answer to that. I still wonder whether a homeowner should search his own house in the dark for no reason or if it makes more sense to turn on lights as he goes.

I guess this thread has me thinking, which is good. I'll do some experiments in my house in the next couple days and see what would work best in my situation. I have small nightlights on in various rooms throughout the house too. Don't know if that changes anything or not.
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Old January 5, 2012, 08:10 PM   #79
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mostly you are describing poor tactics in using light as a reason not to use a light. A better approach is to get some formal training in when and how to use a light, and then use it that way.
And /thread.
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Old January 6, 2012, 05:33 AM   #80
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While I'm not a fan of pistol mounted lights... A person who's been properly trained in the use of one IMO may have an advantage. Any flashlight will give away your general position, and progression. I suggest that people use a method not discussed here as well as others that have been suggested.
Patience. Wait and see what happens... Say nothing do nothing. Give the police time to arrive. Be prepared to use deadly force... but dont become the agressor. Even in your own house. Give the intruder time to make mistakes. Wait for help. Just because a law says you MAY do something dont mean you MUST do it.
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Old January 6, 2012, 07:43 AM   #81
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Glenn Dee, you make a good point. Just about everyone who has trained in house-clearing (and found out how difficult and dangerous it is--even for a team) counsel against going after an intruder. Stay in one room, armed of course and on the phone and let the pros clear the house. The only reason to leave your defensive position would be to gather kids or other dependents back to the position*. This puts the intruder at the disadvantage of moving through an unfamiliar building.

*This argues for a house design that groups all the bedrooms near each other; on the same hall and/or floor if possible.
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Old January 6, 2012, 08:02 AM   #82
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Massad Ayoob gives a lecture on this topic. He has his place rigged, and recommends that others rig their places, so that he has a master lighting panel in the bedroom. He can turn on lights at will, without physically entering a room, while he keeps his defensive area dark.

I have X10 switches in my house and can turn on the living room, front and back lights at the touch of a button. Hallway stays dark and everything else is lit up. You can mount stick on wall switches anywhere you want. Very handy.
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Old January 6, 2012, 08:31 AM   #83
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Let there be light?

Unless you live in a cavernous warehouse, turning on a high intensity rail light will provide sufficient reflected spill to illuminate the entire room you're in. Experienced, prison-trained thugs know to shoot once to the light and once to either side of it.

I don't use a rail light. Instead, I leave small lights on which provide sufficient light to eliminate total blackness and to allow me to differentiate friend from foe without a bullet magnet (flashlight) in my hand. I also practice low light shooting.

Also, conducting sweeps for that bump in the night is a surefire way to get yourself ambushed and shot in your own home. I feel that having a rail light will give you a false sense of security and cause you to use poor tactics. The companies that make them don't tell you that because they are in the business of selling lights, not tactics.
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Old January 6, 2012, 10:09 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxytwo
I have X10 switches in my house and can turn on the living room, front and back lights at the touch of a button.
The x10 stuff looks interesting. I'm not quite sure how the remote works; I'll have to check into it. Thanks.
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Old January 6, 2012, 05:12 PM   #85
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Experienced, prison-trained thugs know to shoot once to the light and once to either side of it. I don't use a rail light. Instead, I leave small lights on which provide sufficient light to eliminate total blackness and to allow me to differentiate friend from foe without a bullet magnet (flashlight) in my hand. I also practice low light shooting.
Also, conducting sweeps for that bump in the night is a surefire way to get yourself ambushed and shot in your own home. I feel that having a rail light will give you a false sense of security and cause you to use poor tactics. The companies that make them don't tell you that because they are in the business of selling lights, not tactics.
Thanks, federali. That pretty much sums up the unease I mentioned earlier when I said that rail-mounted lights were a device I was wary of. Far better to have some night lights placed around the house, and a complete knowledge of every square inch of the place. I do a lot of low-light practice with my CT grips when I go to the range before sunup as well.
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Old January 12, 2012, 11:20 PM   #86
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Sometimes I chuckle when I think about guys with their $150 tacticool flashlights.

For one thing, it leaves no doubt as to where YOUR location is, which is not a good thing when you are being watched by hostile eyes. I guess one solution would be to have night vision goggles on your nightstand. Overall, I prefer to have all the lights in the house on if some thug is creeping around inside. I wouldn't go hunting for him (waiting to be ambushed) if I could help it, that's for sure. If I did, I'd absolutely want a weapon mounted light, so by the he sees it, there can easily be a high lead delivery en route to him.
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Old January 12, 2012, 11:58 PM   #87
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I'm a fan of back-lighting. So I keep a bag of roadside flares in the bedroom. As I move through the house I can strike them one at a time and toss them to the back of the room I'm checking....

Seriously, if I really think someone's in the house we will barricade ourselves and cover the door. We can wait for law enforcement to arrive and do any house clearing. The times I've gone out to check on the "things that go bump in the night", I turn on the lights as I go. I haven't bothered to pick up a firearm on any of those occasions. Call me crazy or call me lazy, just don't forget to call me for supper.
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Old January 13, 2012, 12:01 AM   #88
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Flipping the light switch takes away one of my advantages. I know the layout and furniture locations and the criminal doesn't.
Plus it will blind my eyes just as much as the criminals.
Tacticals lights aren't without their negatives but on the balance they are an advantage.
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Old January 13, 2012, 01:37 AM   #89
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Old January 13, 2012, 01:39 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmerboy
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Old January 13, 2012, 01:48 AM   #91
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Old January 13, 2012, 02:15 AM   #92
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Nate and farmerboy are obviously men of few words...and I am pro tac lights.
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Old January 13, 2012, 04:03 AM   #93
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If you post and your message doesn't appear, edit your post and write the same message; it will appear the second time.

Sorry to be off-topic, but those blank posts are frustrating. Perhaps the mods can post instructions somewhere until it's fixed?

Last edited by Sparks1957; January 13, 2012 at 04:08 AM.
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Old January 13, 2012, 04:11 AM   #94
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I dunno (I'm no expert and haven't trained for this--but I've had some real-world drills)--my dogs go off when the kids are doing a perimeter check of my house (happened more than once) so I grab what's available--usually my trusty XD--and do a quick survey of all rooms, my house is fairly small--so I figure I'm better off taking advantage of what I know of the house layout--rather than putting all my eggs in being cornered in one spot and waiting. Even in the dark I can see well enough from ambient street light's light--I'd never use any lights as that would screw my vision once acclimated to the dark but maybe a laser on a weapon. I know I'm giving them a potential target--but when they see me at the window they have always taken off--so far.
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Old January 13, 2012, 04:17 AM   #95
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Not a thread change--the other day I edited a post and then when I hit submit it mysteriously vanished erasing all content--don't know if that's what might have happened to others.
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Old January 13, 2012, 04:22 AM   #96
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Old January 13, 2012, 10:12 AM   #97
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A few things.

You knowing your house really isn't an advantage. If there is a intruder who is willing to engage you, he (or they -- there could be more than one) doesn't have to know your house -- only that you're coming.

As for a flashlight, the intruder(s) probably know(s) you're coming anyway. And if you think you need to shoot, you need to identify your target. You don't want to shoot your spouse, kid or house guest who got up for a drink of water.

We know about the missing posts and are trying to figure it out.
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:36 AM   #98
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I know every situation is different.

The one time when people entered my home illegally, in the middle of the night (3 am actually). The first thing I did was get my shotgun. The second thing I did was turn on the hallway light.

Why turn on the light? I could have just shot them in the dark, right? There were two other people living with me and I wanted to know for sure that I was pointing that 12 gauge at the uninvited guests and not one of my roommates.

I challenge anyone in the "shoot them in the dark" side of this argument to show me two reputable defensive shooting schools that advocates against the use of tactical lights.
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Old January 13, 2012, 11:59 AM   #99
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I'm not taking any sides or advocating lights or no lights--just what has actually happened in my case. I live by myself with my dogs and my area has a very high rate of break-ins, so while it's possible, it's statistically much more likely it's the bad guys who are crashing your house than a friend or a buzzed mistake--and it's almost never just one person. I'm not a Rambo or tough guy, but I find it easy to grab my weapon and as silently as possible quickly scan the home. The heightened adrenaline/awareness seems to contribute--somehow I feel the most compelling thing is to scan all the areas of entry points as quickly as possible--it's almost instinctive. I could be totally wrong and maybe it's totally the wrong thing to do. I appreciate input from the pros (and yes I will get training soon).
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Old January 13, 2012, 12:47 PM   #100
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What if the BG cuts the power? It seems to me that any BG with half a brain cell would first snip telephone, cable, and LAN lines then pull the power meter. Then he'll know his victim's only form of COM will be cell phones.
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