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Old January 2, 2012, 03:35 AM   #1
TheNocturnus
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My 17 year old cousin got carjacked yesterday.

As the title says, my 17 year old cousin got carjacked yesterday. He was driving his new Kia sedan and was heading to a friends house. He stopped at a railroad crossing and noticed a car pull up and stop in front of him.

A guy rushed out and pointed a gun at him through the driver window and demanded he get out. The guy drove off in the Kia as did his accomplices. This happend mid day, with several other cars around. People were driving around him thinking there was an accident I guess. This happened in Leavenworth, Kansas.

I know this is the tactics and training forum and I could offer some insight as to what I would have done but I'm too angry about it. I really just wanted to put this out there to remind everyone that nowhere and no one is safe from the degenerates of society. Be safe out there people, keep your magazines loaded and be prepared to use them.
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Old January 2, 2012, 04:55 AM   #2
TexasJustice7
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Quote:
Nocturnus31: As the title says, my 17 year old cousin got carjacked yesterday. He was driving his new Kia sedan and was heading to a friends house. He stopped at a railroad crossing and noticed a car pull up and stop in front of him.

A guy rushed out and pointed a gun at him through the driver window and demanded he get out. The guy drove off in the Kia as did his accomplices. This happend mid day, with several other cars around. People were driving around him thinking there was an accident I guess. This happened in Leavenworth, Kansas.
Wow, thats a reminder why people need a gun permit and a gun. Unfortunately your cousin can't legally carry at age 17. If he had came out of his car with a gun, since surrender is not an option for me with my disabled daughter in the vehicle I would have shot him thru my car door with a 44 Spl Bulldog. Really would hate to have to replace a car door. But if he had his gun in his hand and was waving it, might not have been any other choice. What happened to your cousin is one of about 3 or 4 reasons that I went to the trouble to get a gun permit, the other reasons being home invasions and the Ft Hood jihadist attack. I drug my feet for years before reaching the conclusion that it was really necessary.

Glad your cousin is okay, and if he could surrender the vehicle without getting hurt, he did the right thing. If he was not close behind the next vehicle maybe he could have driven away. I figure your cousin will get his'
gun permit when he is of age after that experience.
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Old January 2, 2012, 06:06 AM   #3
ClayInTx
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I’m licensed and I carry and still would have done as your cousin did; get out of the car and let the guy drive it away.

The vehicle is not yet made for which I would shoot someone and then have all the legal hassle to go through.

I can get another car in less than a day.

However, if I sensed I was personally in danger it’s a different story.

I cannot get another me.
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Old January 2, 2012, 07:13 AM   #4
Mobuck
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So, ClayInTx, you wouldn't feel your life was "in danger" when the carjacker pointed a gun at you through the driver's window?
At that point it wasn't a carjacking or robbery, to me that was threatening my life and I would have acted in self defense. Any time someone points a gun at me, they have the potential to hurt or kill me and I don't take that lightly.
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Old January 2, 2012, 07:55 AM   #5
giaquir
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One has to be reasonably convinced
if a carjacker is pointing a gun at you
that he has the upper hand already.
Trying to pull a weapon on him
would only escalate the danger, but
if you feel you can draw and fire
faster than he can pull the trigger.
Go for it!
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Old January 2, 2012, 08:20 AM   #6
JonathanZ
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What giaquir said. I'm not pulling my gun to get shot trying to save my car.
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Old January 2, 2012, 08:25 AM   #7
TexasJustice7
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Quote:
giaquire: One has to be reasonably convinced
if a carjacker is pointing a gun at you
that he has the upper hand already.
Trying to pull a weapon on him
would only escalate the danger, but
if you feel you can draw and fire
faster than he can pull the trigger.
Go for it!
In my case if I were by myself, I would have to be very certain that I could draw before he got to the window and be ready for him, if I were by myself.
With my disabled daughter I have no confidence in a carjacker allowing me to get her out of the vehicle, so my only chance is to draw and shoot him.
As for paperwork, I don't care about that, part of the expense of having a permit and carrying a gun. My insurance covers the vehicle so if I thought
he would let me go, and I were by myself I would let him have it. I would hate to have to draw if he were already standing there with a gun on me.
Then running him over with the car might be another option if no gun was with me.
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Old January 2, 2012, 08:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
I can get another car in less than a day.
I cannot do so! I would also lose my job and begin to starve and live on the streets with 12 dogs...

I might exit the vehicle but as he enters I am unleashing maximum force on him immediately...

I would use florida's law that allows me to detain a violent felon by shooting him in the back as he climbs in...

I have the right to use any force up to lethal to prevent the violent felon from getting away from me...

GOD KNOWS I LOVE MY NATIVE FLORIDA!!!

Brent
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Old January 2, 2012, 08:29 AM   #9
jcsturgeon
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He already did what the situation demanded and seems to be unharmed.
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Old January 2, 2012, 09:07 AM   #10
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My co-worker was at the drive-up window of a Whitecastle (burger joint), a man on foot ran over, and demanded my co-workers car. Because my co-worker was close to the wall, he wasn't able to open his door all the way and get out easily.

The carjacker thought he was moving too slowly so he shot him. The bullet severed his spine just above the waist paralyzing him. The car jacker shot him again for not moving, dragged him out of the car, onto the pavement, stepped on his body as he got in the car and even ran over my co-worker's leg as he drove away.

My co-worker was paralyzed from the waist down.

I don't exactly know how I'd react in a carjacking, but I know it's no garuantee that if I give the theif the car that I will be unharmed.
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Old January 2, 2012, 09:24 AM   #11
customaquatics
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illinois same as me were was this at?
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Old January 2, 2012, 09:41 AM   #12
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He was on the South side of Chicago.
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Old January 2, 2012, 09:58 AM   #13
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
I really just wanted to put this out there to remind everyone that nowhere and no one is safe from the degenerates of society. Be safe out there people, keep your magazines loaded and be prepared to use them.
I think I would prefer to use my gun if necessary. My magazines are less than great blunt force objects.

Quote:
So, ClayInTx, you wouldn't feel your life was "in danger" when the carjacker pointed a gun at you through the driver's window?
At that point it wasn't a carjacking or robbery, to me that was threatening my life and I would have acted in self defense. Any time someone points a gun at me, they have the potential to hurt or kill me and I don't take that lightly.
You are right. Your life is in danger. Endangering your life or threat of endangering your life is the key behind most robberies. If you can't punch the accelerator to egress from the situation, what are you going to do? How quick is your driver side belted in the seat in a car with closed doors and windows draw and fire to hit the target? Are you going to be able to accomplish that task before the bad guy pulls his trigger?

There comes a point in many such situations when compliance is your best option for survival, such as when you are that far behind the curve.

Quote:
I cannot do so! I would also lose my job and begin to starve and live on the streets with 12 dogs...
Wow, the totality of job security and not living on the street is depenedent on one sole vehicle? I think I would be spending more time trying to earn more money to build up some financial security and possibly buying a second vehicle. That is a rectifiable situation.
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:02 AM   #14
hogdogs
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DNS, I am physically barely able to work the 22 hours at $9.50hr.

And I also live debt free so my buying power is limited...

Yes the loss of our sole vehicle would cause 2 people to lose their job.

Not everyone lives above the poverty level...

Brent
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:07 AM   #15
jrothWA
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Traveled to "daleyland", for daughter who...

was going to school down @ Merchandise Mart. Had to work following morning and stopped in Indiana @ end of IN tool road for gas and kidney break.

Was 10:30ish PM, and waiting @ light, caught motion off right rear of miini-van.

Guy walking towards me, he was silhouetted by truck stop tower gas price lights and that illuminated my face and arm as I dropped it down to pick-up the SS J-frame. He left.
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:08 AM   #16
MTT TL
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A number of armed thugs have the drop on me and want my car?

Guess what? They get the car. If I see a good opportunity I might take a chance but it would have to be pretty golden.
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:18 AM   #17
MrDontPlay
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A guy coming for my car with a weapon justifies lethal force IMO. I I could grab my heat fast enough I'd make a good example out of him.
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:39 AM   #18
MLeake
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Answer is: It depends.

Ideally, one would recognize the box-in maneuver when it commenced, and either use the car to immediately get out of there, or if the car were truly blocked then one could draw a weapon and lower the window.

(Edit: Really, if I were truly blocked, I'd want to exit the vehicle. Gun fights are never a good thing, but gun fights while stuck in a confined space are a worse thing.)

(In this scenario, if I had one handy, I'd pass a BUG to the wife if she were along.)

(Edit 2: I normally drive an Avalanche 4x4... I'm not as easily blocked as a guy in a Kia sedan would be. In auto or 4-High, I can hop over curbs and other minor obstructions. Drop into 4-Low, and I can move most blocking vehicles out of my way quite handily. Be aware of your non-firearm options. Drive defensively, and stop with maneuvering room fore and aft when you can - this makes it harder for people to box you in.)

The question is, at what point do you realize what has happened? At some point, you very well could be so far behind that resistance would have very poor odds.
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:49 AM   #19
Mr Dish
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Its probably just me but....As I get older I seem to have less patience with people, esp those who are intent on reducing my level of safety or happiness.
I believe that every time we "allow" the bad guy to accomplish his bad guy goals (ie taking your hard won stuff), then it sends the message that they can do it to anyone they want. I nolonger care that they are someones son, or husband, or brother. They chose to do what they are doing and accept the risks that go along with their chosen profession.
So many people seem to think that if someone steals from you then its better to let them have it rather than pull your weapon and prevent him from doing so. The majority of the time, the bad guy is going to drop to his knees and wait for the police to arrive when he sees that you are armed. If he has a gun of his own and has pointed it at you....then shoot the bastard and get it over with.

...or maybe I;m just feeling alittle cranky today.....
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Old January 2, 2012, 10:56 AM   #20
MLeake
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Mr Dish, I don't think anybody has said, "Hey, it's only a carjacking, don't hurt the poor guy."

I think what they have said is, "He already has the drop on you, and odds are he only wants the car. Are you really fast enough and good enough to draw and fire, without getting shot/killed/crippled/maimed? And if you are, are you willing to deal with the legal system, depending on where this goes down?"

I really don't think anybody has suggested coddling the carjacker.
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Old January 2, 2012, 11:15 AM   #21
TheNocturnus
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Quote:
Glad your cousin is okay, and if he could surrender the vehicle without getting hurt, he did the right thing. If he was not close behind the next vehicle maybe he could have driven away. I figure your cousin will get his'
gun permit when he is of age after that experience.
Thank you. You are the only one to say that so far. He may or may not decide to get a CCW permit, right now he is traumatized and rightfully so. Having a gun pointed at you certainly changes your life and your perspective of things.
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Old January 2, 2012, 12:04 PM   #22
kraigwy
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I came in this world without anything, I'll leave this world without anything.

I will not shoot anyone to protect "property".

Having said that, I will not give up my gun, I carry it to protect my loved ones, as long as they aren't threatened, you can take my car, truck, or what ever. I'll keep my gun to assure property is all you get.

I've hitch hiked home before, I can do it again.
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Old January 2, 2012, 12:06 PM   #23
hangglider
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Most excellent--a wise man indeed.
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Old January 2, 2012, 01:22 PM   #24
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I also came into this world without nothing and will also leave without anything but to say I will not shoot anyone to keep them from stealing my property is, your gun is also property. Im not gonna let some scumbag take anything I worked hard to get or an item I got given to me. If I can somehow do something to get their eyes off me and on something else or get them distracted for a half a second, the last thing they'll see on earth is a bright flash.
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Old January 2, 2012, 02:04 PM   #25
TexasJustice7
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Where is my situational awareness? I would never be in Chicago to begin with, in my case. Isn't this where all the criminals are on the endangered speices list and there is a law against law abiding citisens even having guns?
Seems like I remember some supreme court case involving Chicago and a black veteran, not even being allowed to have a gun his home!
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