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Old January 1, 2012, 05:51 PM   #1
hogdogs
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Is this a good training vid?

We have muzzle sweeps all over...
Orange tape indicator on magazines but some sort of live ammo "dinging" the down range metal plates...

I also note that while showing the throat impacts, the bg never fights back...

I am highly suspect that this ain't the best training in the nation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ZVCz8Tl2ELk

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Old January 1, 2012, 06:51 PM   #2
Gbro
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I question why one would consider a pistol a contact weapon when its still loaded?
I would use it as a club if it ran empty and there wasn't a bigger club at hand.
And standing beside a target while it is being engauged isn't something I would be doing. In fact I will not even do draw and move drills unless there are only 2 of us.
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Old January 1, 2012, 07:01 PM   #3
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If someone was trying to kill me,I believe I would release the bad guy in my custody fast and then start shooting the second bad guy.
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Old January 1, 2012, 07:11 PM   #4
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Tactics and Training.
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Old January 1, 2012, 07:42 PM   #5
Discern
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According to their YouTube channel, the names of the instructors are Hollywood, Moose and De-Fib.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0Ebh..._order&list=UL
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Old January 1, 2012, 08:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Is this a good training vid?
Yes and No;

When I was a range officer with the Anchorage Police Dept. we did a lot of identical training in Firearms and Officer Safety.

EXCEPT

We didn't use real guns. they make little blue or other colored hard rubber pistols for just about any type service revolver/pistols LEOs carry. We used those.

It is valuable training. I remember once, having a bandit in a choke hold with my left arm, and covered his partner who was swinging a chain, with my Servicer Revolver with the other.

Believe it or not, its hard to hold a sight picture when you are holding someone who is flopping around. Talk about "point shooting" all you want, but sights are pretty handy when you want to keep someone on the other end of a 15 foot chain swinging around, away from you.

Yes, valuable training, but you aren't loosing that much if you are using dummy guns. The safety aspect out weights the bit you loose by not using real guns. What that training really does, more then anything else, is makes the officer THINK.

A side note, such training really stresses the need for practice with one hand (left and right) training. Something few cops practice. Knowing that they seldom have both hands free.

If I was to have to come up with a number, I'd say 90% of your defensive pistol practice should be with one hand, 60 with the weak hand and 30% with the strong hand.
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Old January 2, 2012, 06:43 AM   #7
Rifleman 173
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The first thing you need to point out is that the people are using simunitions. The rounds that they're using are not real ammo. Simunitions are special practice rounds to be used in training like the one in the video.

http://simunition.com/en

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simunition

http://simunition.com/en/products/fx_marking_cartridges
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Old January 2, 2012, 07:51 AM   #8
hogdogs
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Is simunition safe to use on bare skin ad close range?

Maybe they are less impact than a paintball gun...

But the round is making the trip from muzzle to target pretty dern fast so I suspect the speed pretty high making a close range shot pretty painful...

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Old January 2, 2012, 09:08 AM   #9
manta49
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What are they trying to prove standing beside the target. I dont care what type of ammo they are using its still dangerous and pointless. And makes them look like asses.
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Old January 2, 2012, 09:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
We have muzzle sweeps all over...
Orange tape indicator on magazines but some sort of live ammo "dinging" the down range metal plates...
Yes, you do and for good reason. You can't have FOF training without muzzle sweeps of the opposition, just as it is in real life. As noted, the rounds are simunitions.

Quote:
I also note that while showing the throat impacts, the bg never fights back...
They are going through demonstration moves. You get the same sorts of behaviors with various forms of martial arts. This is normal instruction/demonstration behavior. Basically, you slow walk through the moves almost like learning dance steps. Speed can be added with familiarity of the moves. As you become more and more familiar with going through the moves, the opposition partner can increase his/her level of opposition.

Quote:
I am highly suspect that this ain't the best training in the nation...
No, it isn't a good training video at all. Why? Because it isn't a training video. It is an advertisement about the class that is showing segments of what is taught in the class.

Quote:
But the round is making the trip from muzzle to target pretty dern fast so I suspect the speed pretty high making a close range shot pretty painful...
Sure. When you get nailed, you know it. Paintballs hurt at close range as well. I don't think I would be allowing contact against the throat with the muzzle of a simunition gun, however, not without throat protection.

Quote:
What are they trying to prove standing beside the target. I dont care what type of ammo they are using its still dangerous and pointless. And makes them look like asses.
Various folks at places like Tactical Response (James Yeager) and some others (Ken Hackathorn) consider this to be a sort of gunfire innoculation. The object is to give the students experience with being shot towards (not at, but towards) such that the experience in real life won't be a new event and hence the student will be able to response better when it does happen, or so the theory goes. I don't know if they still do or not, but the military used to do the same thing with firing machineguns over the heads and backs of soldiers low crawling under barbed wire with real ammo.
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Old January 3, 2012, 04:41 PM   #11
Rifleman 173
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Most places use Airsoft stuff because it doesn't hurt that much. With Airsoft you might get a small bruise or blood blister but Siminitions will hurt you a lot more. I would be very careful showing this video and make darn sure you tell any students to NOT do what those guys are doing because it is still dangerous.
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