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Old December 30, 2011, 03:32 PM   #1
hlds54
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What pistol caliber should NATO go to?

I know similar threads have been made, but I feel this is a little diffrent, any who. I understand that NATO is and has been looking to replace the 9mm round for a while, what round do you think they should go to? Feel free to give your thoughts
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Old December 30, 2011, 03:42 PM   #2
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.45 Auto of course.
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Old December 30, 2011, 03:45 PM   #3
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I don't really think that there's any semi-auto cartridge that will serve them significantly better than 9mm, so I think they should stay with that.
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Old December 30, 2011, 03:48 PM   #4
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10mm. Incredible power, nearly the same mag capacity of 9mm, and since when is the DoD concerned with cost? But that will never happen so its a moot point anyway.
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Old December 30, 2011, 03:49 PM   #5
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I vote 40 to increase power without reducing capacity as much as 45 would.
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Old December 30, 2011, 04:01 PM   #6
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No sensible hand gun caliber has much advantage over the 9mm. So i don't see why they would change. I would hope that NATO would have more sense than to jump on the.40 bandwagon.

There would also be the cost when most military budgets are being cut.
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Old December 30, 2011, 04:08 PM   #7
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Militry needs differ

The military has different tactical needs than the average CCW or police officer. They are probably well-served with the 9mm but if a change in caliber became necessary, I'd go to a flat-point FMJ in .40 S&W.
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Old December 30, 2011, 04:10 PM   #8
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Coming from a guy that shoots .40 primarily, NATO should stick with 9x19.

It's a sensible cartridge. Handguns don't win wars, and most of the world's militaries are most familiar with 9x19. In addition, it's light to carry and easy for beginners to shoot, while having decent power and great capacity.
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Old December 30, 2011, 04:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawScholar
Coming from a guy that shoots .40 primarily, NATO should stick with 9x19.

It's a sensible cartridge. Handguns don't win wars, and most of the world's militaries are most familiar with 9x19. In addition, it's light to carry and easy for beginners to shoot, while having decent power and great capacity.
I second that senitiment and its coming from someone who prefers larger calibers.

There is nothing wrong with the 9mm Parabellum as a service cartridge.

I'll add one more item to LawScholar's list, on hand supply. Why would NATO switch to a different handgun cartridge, when they have millions of rounds of 9mm in stock?
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Old December 30, 2011, 04:33 PM   #10
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9x19 works just fine....
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Old December 30, 2011, 05:09 PM   #11
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.40Super or the 5.7mm...

I really like & support the .40Super caliber as a duty/sidearm/defense pistol but it never quite caught on in CONUS.
Overall, the 5.7mm round has merit(large ammo cap, low recoil, deep penetration, aim) but it's not popular either now. 2020? 2030? Maybe.

The small arms/PDW research has been going on for decades.
R&D in NATO or milspec weapons takes a long long time.
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Old December 30, 2011, 05:15 PM   #12
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Stay with the 9MM.
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Old December 30, 2011, 05:18 PM   #13
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10mil is the ideal autoloader cartridge. It also makes a great sub machine gun round. Since the 45acp its the only truly progressive round we have seen. Everything else has been regressive or lateral.
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Old December 30, 2011, 05:24 PM   #14
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IMHO - the 9x19 was a mistake that should never have come into being in the first place.
The tapered case keeps the round from living up to it's full accuracy potential without a lot of high dollar work done on the gun.

Witness the Sig 210.
& plase don't counter that the 210 has other things that make it as expensive as it is.
A 1911 in .38 Super Auto can more than hold it's own & cost a whole lot less & be every bit as nice.

If old George Luger had decided to put together a new cartridge from scratch, instead of blowing out the shoulder on the 7.65mm Luger, things would have been better.

He didn't and things aren't...

I'm afraid though, that given the huge investment in 9x19 hardware NATO has, it's not going away any time soon.
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Old December 30, 2011, 05:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
.45 Auto of course.
This.
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Old December 30, 2011, 05:46 PM   #16
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120 mm Smoothbore to match the M1A Abrams tank.

Now thats one shot stopping.
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Old December 30, 2011, 05:53 PM   #17
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Since when is all of NATO looking to replace 9mm as the sidearm caliber?
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:01 PM   #18
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As much as I would wish it different, none of your logical suggestions will have anything to do with what round NATO, may or may not choose as a replacement for the 9x19mm. The decision will be about money and who is going to make it. The different arguments made here will be part of the excuse for change, not the reason for change. The people arguing for a new handgun round will be the ones not currently making the money that the current winners are making now. That means a lot more for than against.

Remember that statement, "let's make a deal".
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:04 PM   #19
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NATO (or the U.S. Dept. of Defense) does not believe that a sidearm is relevant or even particularly useful in war. They look at caliber as a purely logistical supply issue. Individual soldiers on the ground tend to have a completely different opinion on this. Unfortunately the people upstairs make the rules with no regard as to what the people on the ground think. The guys on the ground are irrelevant and expendable and don't cost much compared to the machinery of modern warfare.

Last edited by drail; December 30, 2011 at 06:11 PM.
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:06 PM   #20
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Glock 9mm
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:09 PM   #21
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Why are some of you talking like NATO and the US DoD are the same thing?
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:10 PM   #22
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Because U.S. D.O.D. will do whatever NATO tells them. At least they have for the last 40 years or so.
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:15 PM   #23
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Voicing my personal opinion here, so here goes. Hands down, the .45ACP is the proven choice.

The 9mm is a good cartridge and had served the adversary's military well in WWII and beyond, but stopping power is dependant on shot placement. Same for the 10 and the 40...pretty powerful and deadly, but... There's a reason why most combat pilots and grunts buy their own .45's instead of carrying their issued hand weapon. Add to this Corbon or alike ammunition and the informed argument ends,

They all kill, quite well. But the car analogy might apply here...what would rather send a threat their way, a sports car or a freight train. Both will do the job, but the freight train guarantees an end to the threat regardless of where it's hit.
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:16 PM   #24
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No, the DoD will do what they and the rest of NATO agree on, in committee, by vote, or however. The USA is a member of NATO and takes part like the rest. At one time this was a matter of national survival and it has proved valuable for the last decade as well.
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Old December 30, 2011, 06:28 PM   #25
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NATO would be a committee made up of people that know very little about engaging in and winning a war. The people now in D.O.D. all believe they have a future in Washington politics if they play their cards right and that's all they think about. It's not like it used to be. The Dept. of Defense used to be called the War Dept. Ever wonder why we changed the name? Think about that.
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