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Old December 21, 2011, 11:02 PM   #1
homesick
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Difference in Ruger Hawkeye and model 77 std

Can some one help me out I'am trying to figure out the difference between a Ruger model 77 and the Ruger 77 Hawkeye. I have looked on the web and asked several people but no one has given me much info. I figured this is the place to go to get the real facts. The one I have is a 7MM-08 all weather.
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Old December 21, 2011, 11:20 PM   #2
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I believe that the Model 77 came out in 1968, then in 1989 (Wikipedia says 91) they came up with the 77 Mk II and then in 2006 they changed the name again to the Hawkeye.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_M77
Scroll down a little to "Variations".

I know that the original 77s had a tang safety and adjustable triggers. The Mk II went to the 3 position safety and ruined a good trigger (made it non adjustable).

Last edited by CTS; December 21, 2011 at 11:32 PM.
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Old December 22, 2011, 07:11 AM   #3
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Thanks Slappy I have and have had several 77s and never really could tell or see any difference. I like the feel of them and they are all fairly accurate but the triggers really suck. I am gona do some research and fix the one one my 7-08.
Once again thanks.
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Old December 22, 2011, 07:57 AM   #4
Lloyd Smale
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hawkeys and mark IIs are the same other the finish and stocks. The older 77s are differnt actions. They have a sliding tang safety vs a wing safety. I kind of soured for a while on ruger rifles because i had so many problems with accuracy in there older guns but ive got 3 hawkeyes now and all of them shoot real well.
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Old December 22, 2011, 08:56 AM   #5
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The Hawkeye rifles have the LC6 trigger which is supposed to be better but I changed mine out for a timney.
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Old December 22, 2011, 12:27 PM   #6
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The original 77's had a tang safety, held 5+1 in standard cartridges and were pushfeed, with a large claw extractor with a plunger type ejector. At this time Ruger made the actions and stocks, but purchased their barrels from various outside vendors. This lead to very inconsistent accuracy. Some guns were awful, others were match quality.

They introduced the MK-II in the early 90's with a trimmer stock, 4+1 mag capacity because of the thinner stock, and true controlled round feeding with a claw extractor and blade ejector. They also started making their own barrels which lead to more consistent accuracy. Metal finish is highly polished on both stainless and blue models. The floorplate and trigger guard are painted aluminum.

The Hawkeye came out in 2006. The Hawkeye has a slightly different trigger. I actually THINK, it is the same trigger, just with a better, smoother pull. The Hawkeye stock is slightly trimmer than the MK-II, but not much. The metal finish is bed blasted to reduce glare on both blue and stainless models. Ruger's logo is laser engraved on the steel floorplate. The trigger guard is now steel rather than aluminum as well. The Hawkeye's also use a modern hi-tech recoil pad similar to the Limbsaver.

The current production blue Hawkeye's now have highly polished metal. This is very recent and I've only seen 1 such gun on a store shelf so far.
the stainless models are still bead blasted.

Quote:
The Mk II went to the 3 position safety and ruined a good trigger (made it non adjustable).
The Hawkeye trigger can be improved on. Just because you can't turn a screw does not mean it cannot be polished and a lighter spring installed. Once done right the MK-II or Hawkeye is an excellent trigger.
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Old December 22, 2011, 01:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
I know that the original 77s had a tang safety and adjustable triggers.
Only certain models had the adjustable trigger.

Quote:
hawkeys and mark IIs are the same other the finish and stocks. The older 77s are differnt actions. They have a sliding tang safety vs a wing safety.
Although it is widely believed, the M77 Hawkeye is not built on the same action as the M77 Mk II. The Hawkeye is, in fact, its own action. Part of the change over to the Hawkeye was Ruger's desire to simplify the manufacturing process. A few minor changes were made to the action, to save machine time. Dimensionally, they can (usually) be considered the same (buying a stock, getting a scope base, etc); but, mechanically, they're different actions.


Quote:
They introduced the MK-II in the early 90's with a trimmer stock, 4+1 mag capacity because of the thinner stock, and true controlled round feeding with a claw extractor and blade ejector. They also started making their own barrels which lead to more consistent accuracy. Metal finish is highly polished on both stainless and blue models. The floorplate and trigger guard are painted aluminum.
Stainless M77 Mk IIs had/have a steel floor plate.

-

I haven't measured any of the parts to verify there has been a change, but I do believe the tang of the M77 Hawkeye was modified for the LC6 trigger. The trigger and sear are of a new design and appear to have new dimensions. It definitely makes sense that when producing a new trigger system on an action modified for easier/faster/cheaper production, the tang would be modified for the new trigger and sear.
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Stainless M77 Mk IIs had/have a steel floor plate.
None that I have ever owned prior to the Hawkeye were steel. They were aluminum left in the white with a clear coating. I was wrong about the triggerguard, it has always been steel, but not the floorplate.

Quote:
Although it is widely believed, the M77 Hawkeye is not built on the same action as the M77 Mk II. The Hawkeye is, in fact, its own action. Part of the change over to the Hawkeye was Ruger's desire to simplify the manufacturing process. A few minor changes were made to the action, to save machine time. Dimensionally, they can (usually) be considered the same (buying a stock, getting a scope base, etc); but, mechanically, they're different actions.
I have both, cannot find any mechanical differences. The manufacturing process may be somewhat different, but it is my belief that all parts will interchange. The trigger is advertised as different, but it is my belief it is still the same trigger, just smoothed up a little more before leaving the factory. If you have any documentation to back this up I'd like to see it. I've never heard any of this and I follow Rugers pretty closely. But I've been wrong before.
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:10 PM   #9
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Thanks for the feed back on the Hawkeye. I went to the local gun shop this AM to buy a spring for the trigger, I want to see if I can fix the 8 lb. pull. They have them but would not sell one guess they want the 45 bucks to do an adjustment job. I guess I'll find a parts place and order one. Other then the trigger it's a very nice rifle.
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:20 PM   #10
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Try a spring out of a ball point pen that is a wee bit udersize from the factory spring. Go through all safety checks
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:27 PM   #11
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Lot of good recommendations here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472472
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Old December 22, 2011, 04:43 PM   #12
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The original Ruger (with the tang safety) was the only one with the adjustable trigger.

Then came the Mk II which also was the first stainless/synthetic stocked Ruger 77 in their lineup.

Now it's the Hawkeye which has very few differences from the Mk II. They still make a couple Mk II models.

I've had all but the Hawkeye and all have been some of the best rifles I've owned.

And I just ordered the spring from here. Here is also a trigger company's instructions for changing the whole trigger but can be used to see how to change just the spring.

http://www.erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i29.html

http://www.riflebasix.com/RU-R_RU-MKII_Instructions.pdf
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Old December 22, 2011, 08:59 PM   #13
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I have a few MKII's my friend has the hawkeye the difference I see is about 150.00 bucks i like them both great hunting rifles. Did the trigger work myself never had a problem.
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Old December 23, 2011, 04:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
None that I have ever owned prior to the Hawkeye were steel. They were aluminum left in the white with a clear coating. I was wrong about the triggerguard, it has always been steel, but not the floorplate.
I have handled many stainless Mk IIs made between 2000 and 2008, that had stainless steel floor plates.

At this very moment, I hold in my hands, a Mk II SS/Laminate "Sporter" from 2004, with a stainless steel floor plate.

So, perhaps I should have said "newer stainless M77 Mk IIs have/had steel floor plates."
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Old December 23, 2011, 11:46 AM   #15
warbirdlover
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The "features" section in the Ruger website says "steel" floorplate also.

Quote:
The original 77's had a tang safety, held 5+1 in standard cartridges and were pushfeed, with a large claw extractor with a plunger type ejector. At this time Ruger made the actions and stocks, but purchased their barrels from various outside vendors. This lead to very inconsistent accuracy. Some guns were awful, others were match quality.
I had an original 77. They always were controlled round feed.
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Old December 23, 2011, 01:43 PM   #16
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I never had an early 77..but I heard they were push feed with a claw extractor.....
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Old December 23, 2011, 01:51 PM   #17
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I searched and found this argument all over rifle forums (push feed or controlled feed) and IF there ever were push feed Ruger 77's they were very short lived! From all I've read Ruger designed this action copying the Mauser 98 with the controlled round feeding. I had a very early version and it was controlled round. So it's kind of an "unsolved mystery" at this point....

I stand corrected...

Quote:
The old Ruger MKI was an exception to this -- it had a non-rotating claw extractor, but because it used a plunger-type extractor and a fully counter-sunk bolt face, it was still a push feed.
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Old December 23, 2011, 01:55 PM   #18
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Quote:
push feed with a claw extractor.....
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How would that work, exactly? The claw snap ove rthe rim when the bolt is closing?
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Old December 23, 2011, 01:56 PM   #19
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That's what they said. The claw didn't snap over the rim until the bolt was all the way forward.
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Old December 23, 2011, 03:09 PM   #20
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Maybe this will help some.
I have both an M77 MKII (30-06) about 6 years old and a M77 Hawkeye (.223) just bought this past year. They are almost identical except just a couple things...
1- the blueing on the older one is nice and deep. The new gun looks more like parkerizing to me.
2- The butt pads are different.
3 -The bolt on the older model is a glossy chrome-like finish whereas the newer model has a dull gray finish on the bolt.
4- The bolt on the older one is a lot smoother, but that may just be from lack of use on the new gun.
5- The bottom magazine access plate is engraved on the newer one

I like both guns and both are decent shooters.
The newer one (.223) is on top. The older on the bottom


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Old December 23, 2011, 06:21 PM   #21
Keg
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Waterboy..why that scope on a 223???
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Old December 23, 2011, 06:47 PM   #22
FrankenMauser
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How would that work, exactly? The claw snap ove rthe rim when the bolt is closing?
Yea... they designed a claw extractor to snap over the rim. It was a stupid idea then, and remains a stupid idea. I love my M77 tang safety, but rim snap-over with a claw extractor is annoying (even with a claw extractor designed for it).

They could have gone with controlled-round-feed, quite easily. But, we got stuck with a claw extractor that has to snap over cartridge rims.
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Old December 23, 2011, 07:51 PM   #23
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I did a trigger job on my Hawkeye today minor hone job and a new spring made a world of difference. I tried a pen spring 1st but found out that when slamming the bolt, the hammer would fall once in 20 times or so. Not good! So I went to the hardware store and found a spring same size as factory but lighter weight. I cut it down to just a touch shorter then factory spring, to light as the slam test dropped the hammer once in about 40 slams. I cut the next one same size as factory, perfect passed slam test and drop test ( bounce it off the floor on butt pad). I went from just under 7 lbs. to 3.2 lbs. / no creep and just a touch of over travel.
This rifle (7mm-08) shoots the 120 gr / 130 gr and 140 gr at or under 3/4" moa with either Varget or H414.
Fun rifle to work with it responds well with every thing I have run through it and the recoil is mild.
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Old December 23, 2011, 08:09 PM   #24
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These guys make the springs for the Hawkeye and MkII.

http://www.erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i29.html

I've got one coming for my MkII that should be here tomorrow.

http://www.erniethegunsmith.com/catalog/i22.html
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Old December 23, 2011, 09:13 PM   #25
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Quote:
Waterboy..why that scope on a 223???
Just thought I'd try it out on there. It's a variable 4 power and I'm typically not shooting more than 150-200 yds anyway. I actually like it a lot. Just need to get out and use it more before i decide to keep it on there.
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