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Old December 21, 2011, 02:06 PM   #26
Alaska444
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Today, 09:57 AM #22
Onward Allusion
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peetzakilla

Boulder dash!

The violent crime rate in America as a whole and in almost all localities has been on the decline for YEARS, probably decades.

Comparing American cities to combat zones is ludicrous.

Even in places with higher than average violence the majority is criminal on criminal and very often drug or gang related.

Obviously, things happen, but "becoming grim" and "combat zone" is beyond exaggeration.
No, not boulder dash. The reality is that it depends on where you are. If one can believe the FBI statistics, violent crime decreased in the 1st half of 2011. However, I want to point out that supposedly unemployment has dropped as well. If one were to dig deeper, one will understand that there are a lot of numbers that go under-reported and/or misclassified.

In any event, here's a link to the 2011 1st half FBI stats.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...4/table-4/view

Just glancing at the numbers it looks like top-tier cities are lowering crime rates but smaller cities are increasing.
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My small city does not report the actual crime stats according to one of my old patients who was chief detective. They kept two separate lists. The real version and the reported version. He told me if people knew the real stats, there would be vigilantes on the streets from such anger.

Long way of stating I seriously doubt the dropping crime stats. If that is true, why do they keep building new prisons and keep filling them up at an alarming rate? Go figure, crime is down, but they keep convicting more and more criminals. How does that happen?

Cities compete against other cities and crime stats are one of the determinants if folks will move or start a business in that area. Like many things in govn't, they plain and simply lie.
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Old December 21, 2011, 02:58 PM   #27
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I see a lot of shootings here in the Omaha area but they are almost all gang related and in one main part of town. A few down south but almost all are in a 2 mile radius.

No need to panic tho. Todays media is so hungry for a story they will come up with some and embellish it to the point folks hide in their houses in fear.

Sure there have been isolated acts of huge badness but it isnt an every day situation.

I prefer to belive most folks are good at heart and will behave as they are treated. Be nice and they are nice. Is my opinion only, others may feel differently and thats OK.
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Old December 21, 2011, 03:16 PM   #28
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Yes! Both times I noticed them very early on and stopped the encounter with a "NO!" and the universal open hand "Stop" signal. One location was in front of the video store and movement to the far side of the car was easy. The other location was at a gas station when I was pumping gas. I could have been easily pinned between the car and gas pump.

The trick is to "keep your head on a swivel" and watch reactions. If they are looking at you and react, then you've been selected!

See John Farnham's Quips.
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Old December 21, 2011, 04:05 PM   #29
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Wierd timing, this post.

Just a few days ago I had to go quite some distance to a not-so-great part of town to pick up something that could not wait till the next day. I had just enough time (and fuel) to get there. Leaving their office, I had to gas up at the nearest gas station as by that time, I was sitting just over empty. I usually fuel up at 1/4 tank but that time the remaining fuel did not get me there and back.

As I was fueling in this part of town, a car pulled up on the other side of the gas pump and a young woman got out. She approached me and said she needed money for gas. I reached into my pocket and gave her the bill on the outside of my folded cash, which I knew to be a $5.00 bill. I did not take out all my cash, keeping the remaining bills in my pocket.

She started cussing at me saying she needed to fill her tank and that I was a cheapskate (modified wording). While I was struck at her total lack of gratitude, I quickly swiveled my head and glancing over my right shoulder I noticed a rough looking young male approaching me from behind.

I quickly swept back my jacket and put my hand on the grip of my Sig Sauer P229 and moved to a more defensible position.

She yelled to the young man "Don't mess wit' him he got a gun!" and they both took off in a very big hurry.

Lesson learned. Now I refuel at 1/2 tank.
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Old December 21, 2011, 04:11 PM   #30
aarondhgraham
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I dunno,,, but lack of it got my fanny whupped & robbed,,,,,

There I was,,,
Sittin' in a bar in Tae Jon Dong, South Korea.

I had Yobo's to the left of me,,,
I had Yobo's to the right of me.

But was I scared?

Hail no!,,,
But I wasn't aware either,,,
'cause when one lifted my smokes,,,
I chased her out the door and ran into her "friends".

Who then proceeded to happily whup my hind parts,,,
And rob me of all my valuables,,,
Along with my manly pride.

Alcohol and Condition White seem to go hand in hand.

Aarond
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Old December 21, 2011, 04:16 PM   #31
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Just more proof that smoking is bad for you
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Old December 21, 2011, 05:36 PM   #32
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aarond, "yobos"? Can't say as I ever heard that one afore!

As to the OP, more times than I can possibly relate. A real hairy experience in South Africa, which my own stupidity got me into, another in downtown Kiev, another in a small town in Brazil, another in Monterrey, Nuevo Leon. That's not counting the times here in the states.
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Old December 21, 2011, 06:42 PM   #33
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Situational awarenes has saved me time and again! Its more than just knowing where you are and who's around. Weapons availability, improvised weapons availability, cover/concealment locations, entrances, escape routes, facing the room, hands, hands, hands, and of course..... CY6!
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Old December 21, 2011, 06:51 PM   #34
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Once for sure, two times probably, and countless times arguably. I've relayed both these here before, but once at an ATM, which faced a main thoroughfare by the way, at night, 3 guys suddenly appeared on the sidewalk walking behind me. One seemed to be getting too close and I spun around, throwing my jacket back and gripping my Kimber. His exaggerated step toward the sidewalk and back to his friends told me he was up to no good, though he was giving me a what's your problem look. They continued down the sidewalk and I finished my transaction.

Another time I was biking at night past a rather large dog sitting unrestrained on his front grass when I heard his owner murmer get im! I put my hand on my G26 and yelled BIG F-IN MISTAKE! The dog hadn't gotten much more than several steps before he was called back. This time I reported it, but since I couldn't give them an address they said they wouldn't do anything but drive by.
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Old December 21, 2011, 07:36 PM   #35
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Boulder dash!

The violent crime rate in America as a whole and in almost all localities has been on the decline for YEARS, probably decades.
There are too many neighborhoods in my community that were once safe, but are no longer--especially (but not limited to) at night.

Personally, my first concern is what things are like in my community. There has been NO violent crime drop where I live. It's still a fairly safe place to live, but home invasions have increased. So have robberies on the street where the wrong car drives by, spots a victim, and assaults them (or murders, as has been the case, also).

Use to be I could go to a carwash, or a day night teller (especially, but not limited to, at night) without being overly concerned. Hasn't been that way for a long time in the world of decreasing crime you allude to.

Doesn't matter if the crime rate increases or decreases slightly. There's more crime than there used to be in MANY places. Not just border states.

I'm curious to know about these communities you refer to where the crime rate has been decreasing for years.

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 21, 2011 at 07:43 PM.
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Old December 21, 2011, 07:44 PM   #36
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Violent crime has been on the decline as a nation wide average for years. "Your" town may not follow the trend.


Regardless, that's not even the point. The person to whom I was responding said that situation in American cities is "grim" and they resemble "combat zones".

Argue crime rates and find exceptions for sake of argument all night long, "grim combat zones" is asinine.

Here are some charts that get the point across:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Notice the peak in the early 90s with a steady decline ever since.

Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; December 22, 2011 at 11:31 AM. Reason: fix link
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Old December 22, 2011, 12:11 AM   #37
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You know, I have to jump in here to agree with peetzakiller. I'll accept as a given Alaska444's caution about crime statistics being understated. Still, it would appear that violent crimes are falling, even if the actual levels of crime are higher than reflected in the FBI statistics. I think most of us have presumed that to be the case, given the manifold incentives to under-report violent crime.

But to the point, the idea that American cities, overall, are "grim" and "combat zones" is risible. I believe that was the point.

Oh, and the worst American urban crime I ever knew was New York in the 1970s. While New York may be a hell-hole for gun owners (or for any American), it's a better place, violent crime-wise, than the mid-seventies.
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Old December 22, 2011, 01:57 AM   #38
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Argue crime rates and find exceptions for sake of argument all night long, "grim combat zones" is asinine.
Perhaps, but there are sections in every major city where the crime rate is extremely high, the danger for the people who live there is very high, and the danger for a person who'd inadvertently enter the area is extreme.

There are sections in the same cities where gunfire can be heard on a nightly basis, and even during the day. There are places where people sleep behind sandbags, or put children in the bath tub to protect them from stray bullets.

How assinine is it to refer to places like that as "combat zones" when I know, for an absolute fact that many LE officers refer to them as the very same. And no, I don't mean the whole city, unless maybe you refer to Oakland Calif., or Detroit after they won (or lost) a big sporting contest. At least the down town sections and rapid transit.

THE POINT:
If he'd said every major city has it's war zones, then he wouldn't have been so extreme. Just a little where some cities are concerned, and on the money with others.

By referring to the whole cities in general, then yes, rather extreme.

Except maybe DC, that has a per capita casualty rate that exceeds that of our troops fighting in a WAR ZONE called Afghanistan!

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 22, 2011 at 09:26 PM.
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Old December 22, 2011, 05:45 AM   #39
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I live in the "Yellow Zone"

It's hard to know for sure. But at least a few.

I'm a big believer in the Jeff Cooper Color Code
  • White - Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."
  • Yellow - Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself". You are simply aware that the world is a potentially unfriendly place and that you are prepared to defend yourself, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to shoot today". You don't have to be armed in this state, but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six." (In aviation 12 o'clock refers to the direction in front of the aircraft's nose. Six o'clock is the blind spot behind the pilot). In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep. As Cooper put it, "I might have to shoot."
  • Orange - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot that person today", focusing on the specific target which has caused the escalation in alert status. In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that person does "X", I will need to stop them". Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.
  • Red - Condition Red is fight. Your mental trigger (established back in Condition Orange) has been tripped. "If "X" happens I will shoot that person".
Many times when I "think" there may be an issue, simply watching will often make it go away.
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Old December 22, 2011, 07:18 AM   #40
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and also agree with peetzakiller. Contrary to some who believe we are "under siege", in a "combat zone", I don't see it this way. Using buzz words to get a point across is sensationalism. Been to a few combat zones and they didn't really remind me of any US cities I've been to

As for situational awareness saving, unless there is a specific threat, how does one know if they have been "saved" by their actions? Because someone follows me, and I turn in a different direction, was I "saved"? Do I know the intent of the follower to classify it as a legitimate threat? Hell, If I was walking behind someone and they put their hand on gun, I'd take off too! Just curious as to how some classify a legit threat.
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Old December 22, 2011, 07:33 AM   #41
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Peetzakiller

If the good old USA is not a warzone then explain overcrowded prisons. Explain the persistant felony offender charge? I'm not advocating trenches and walls around every home but with the current generation of children born from 1990 on the amount of ADHD related medicines out there due to parental drug use during conception leads to a grim outlok. High drug use goes hand in hand with high crime.
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In order to cut down on gun crimes we The Govt. are banning all guns.

Well I guess I will sleep with a chainsaw next to my bed. Not the same as a gun but I figure the sound of it revving up will be as effective as a pump shot gun being cycled.
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Old December 22, 2011, 07:42 AM   #42
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Colonel Custer, in some ways I agree with you... However...

If drug possession and use were de-criminalized, that over-crowding problem would probably be gone next week.

Related crimes, IE thefts, assaults, etc by addicts would still exist - but those would be crimes in any case.

Point being, if you want to increase the crime rate, legislate more things into crimes. If you want to over-crowd your prisons, toss in some non-discretionary minimum sentences.

There can be more than one cause for any number of problems.
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Old December 22, 2011, 08:12 AM   #43
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How does ADHD tie in with parental drug use?

Overcrowded prisons don't only include violent criminals. Since what was stated was the violent crime rate has been on the decline, and we know overcrowded prisons don't only have criminals convicted of violent crimes there, then the argument of overcrowded prisons equating a warzone doesn't add up.
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:25 PM   #44
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peetzakilla
Violent crime has been on the decline as a nation wide average for years. "Your" town may not follow the trend.


Regardless, that's not even the point. The person to whom I was responding said that situation in American cities is "grim" and they resemble "combat zones".

Argue crime rates and find exceptions for sake of argument all night long, "grim combat zones" is asinine.

Here are some charts that get the point across:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime..._United_States

Notice the peak in the early 90s with a steady decline ever since.
Violent crime OVERALL has decreased in this country (if you can believe the numbers) BUT also has shifted from big cities like NYC to 2nd tier and smaller cities. I tried to upload a denormalized spreadsheet of the FBI Crime Stats for the 1st half of 2011 to TFL but it would not take Excel spreadsheets. Go to THR, I'd posted it there. Anyone with a basic knowledge of MS Excel can filter through and sort the data to their liking. Some results are truly surprising.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=632375

This is only speculation, however, I believe one of the main reasons why big cities have experienced a drop in the violent crime rates is due to policing and surveillance (cameras). This is something that the budgets of smaller cities lack. So, if you live in a big city the news is good. If you live in a budget stricken 2nd or 3rd tier city - things ain't so good.
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:31 PM   #45
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Onward Allusion, I think you'll find that meth has been behind a lot of that shift. People can build a meth lab in a trailer or small apartment.

We just moved from an area near a nice city that frequently makes "Top Ten places to live in America" lists (at least three or four times in the last 20 years). It's still nice.. but its hospital has a very large meth clinic, that is typically operating at capacity.

I have friends in rural Washington state who complain about meth labs near their neighborhoods; also rural NC; rural KS; rural TN... You get the idea.
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Old December 22, 2011, 03:46 PM   #46
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http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/secure.aspx


Here are the Farmers Insurance Group’s Most Secure U.S. Places to Live for 2010:
Top large metro areas
Top medium size metro areas
Top small metro areas

Large Metro Areas (500,000 or more residents)
1.Madison, Wis.
2.Des Moines–West Des Moines, Iowa
3.Syracuse, N.Y.
4.Austin–Round Rock, Texas
5.Portland–South Portland–Biddeford, Maine
6.Rochester, N.Y.
7.Honolulu, Hawaii
8.El Paso, Texas
9.Bethesda–Gaithersburg–Frederick, Md.
10.Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, Wash.
11.Pittsburgh, Pa.
12.Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington, Minn.
13.Nassau–Suffolk Counties, N.Y.
14.McAllen–Edinburg–Mission, Texas
15.Bridgeport–Stamford–Norwalk, Conn.
16.Raleigh–Cary, N.C.
17.Albany–Schenectady–Troy, N.Y.
18.Wichita, Kan.
19.Buffalo–Niagara Falls, N.Y.
20.New Haven–Milford, Conn.
Mid-Size Cities (150,000 - 500,000 residents)
1.Olympia, Wash.
2.Sioux Falls, S.D.
3.Bellingham, Wash.
4.Kennewick–Richland–Pasco, Wash.
5.Fargo, N.D.–Moorhead, Minn.
6.Rochester, Minn.
7.Duluth, Minn.–Superior, Wis.
8.Binghamton, N.Y.
9.Lynchburg, Va.
10.Burlington, Vt.
11.St. Cloud, Minn.
12.Green Bay, Wis.
13.Yakima, Wash.
14.Appleton, Wis.
15.Spokane, Wash.
16.Bremerton–Silverdale, Wash.
17.Boulder, Colo.
18.Cedar Rapids, Iowa
19.Fayetteville–Springdale–Rogers, Ark.
20.Las Cruces, N.M.
Small Towns (Fewer than 150,000 residents)
1.Lewiston, Idaho–Clarkston, Wash.
2.State College, Pa.
3.Ithaca, N.Y.
4.Bismarck, N.D.
5.Logan, Utah
6.Wenatchee, Wash.
7.Morgantown, W.Va.
8.Billings, Mont.
9.Corvallis, Ore.
10.Midland, Texas
11.Sioux City, Iowa
12.La Crosse, Wis.–Winona, Minn.
13.Elmira, N.Y.
14.Rapid City, S.D.
15.Oshkosh–Neenah, Wis.
16.Eau Claire, Wis.
17.Mount Vernon–Anacortes, Wash.
18.Fond du Lac, Wis.
19.Blacksburg–Christiansburg–Radford, Va.
20.Grand Forks, N.D.–Crookston, Minn.


There are places in this world far worse than anywhere in America.


Keep your eyes open and ears on, avoid bad places.
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Old December 22, 2011, 05:52 PM   #47
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Situational awareness has kept me out of trouble plenty of times. I also find it hard to believe how many people are oblivious of what is around them. This particular instance was before I had my LTCH but I still made sure I had a knife on me at all times. (Yeah I know, school trip and I'm carrying a knife. What can I say? I don't trust people. I kept it to myself and turned out I was happy I had it.)

I was on a school trip in Washington DC and towards the end of the week a bunch of us had gone to a mall. Myself and one other buddy and been walking around and we ran into a few of the girls who were in our group. We started talking when a man walked by real close (the mall wasn't terribly crowded and the proximity just seemed weird) and eyed one of the girls rather intently. Over the next 30 minutes I noticed the same man maybe 3 or 4 more times. Somewhere in there I went from yellow to orange. At this point we go to the food court and grab some lunch. The same girl I mentioned earlier gets up to use the restroom which is down a hallway close to where we are sitting. The hallway had, I think, a row of payphones, followed by the men's bathroom, then the woman's bathroom at the end. As she is walking to the bathroom I noticed the same man, once again eyeing my friend and walking towards her. At this point I'm standing but not doing anything yet. He turns down the hallway and I'm starting to walk towards him, deciding not to act further unless he walks past the men's bathroom, for all I know the whole thing is just a weird coincedence. The moment he walked past the men's bathroom door I started running. I went from orange to red and remember grabbing the knife from my pocket (I never did open it though). I remember yelling at him to get away from the door and get lost (I won't repeat the actual phrasing). He turned around and at first looked ready for a fight, he saw me (I'm a bigger guy and at the time I was hitting the gym 5 days a week) and my buddy who I guess realized what was going on and followed me. The guy then gets all apologetic and gives the whole "I'm sorry," "And I'm not looking for a fight," and "its not what it looks like." I told him to get lost, waited for the friend, who never noticed anything and looked completely bewildered to find us both standing outside the bathroom when she walked out, and we phoned the chaparone and left. I reported it to mall security and gave a description, in hopes the same thing could be prevented in the future.

I think what got me the most is that had I not noticed him, who knows what may have happened. Everyone else in the group said they hadn't noticed a thing until I was out of my chair and running.
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Old December 23, 2011, 12:21 AM   #48
Stevie-Ray
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I believe one of the main reasons why big cities have experienced a drop in the violent crime rates is due to policing and surveillance (cameras).
Another is that the trash is moving out of the big cities for the suburbs. For example, witness the drop in crime over the years in Detroit, but the rise of same in it's surrounding cities. Detroit hasn't been the murder capital for quite a while as it spreads it's refuse to it's neighbors. Our housing crisis has had a lot to do with the flight of Detroit's worst.
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Old December 23, 2011, 12:51 AM   #49
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Yikes, if Spokane WA is the 15th most safe place in America, wow, we are under siege. I have most of my medical appointments in Spokane while up in Idaho. Spokane is a town that I would not want to venture after dark, period. Here are some crime stories from earlier this year. Home invasions seem to be one of the biggest things we always hear about on the news and radio while up in Idaho.

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/siren...ion-robberies/

Here is the latest from today:

http://www.khq.com/story/15976623/ea...ed-by-resident

Home invasions are one of the most dreadful crimes, and that is what we hear all the time while up there. We only hope that the folks in Spokane never learn how to drive down the road to Idaho anytime soon. In any case, up in Idaho, too many rednecks armed to the teeth. Maybe that is why they don't drive down the road to our neck of the woods 30 minutes away.

In any case, I am not impressed with how "safe" Spokane is and I am always on condition yellow in that town.

Last edited by Alaska444; December 23, 2011 at 01:08 AM.
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Old December 23, 2011, 02:24 AM   #50
firespec35
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Join Date: March 24, 2006
Posts: 127
Not me really but it saved my partner once. We were enroute to an event and had to fuel the ambulance. We stopped and my partner who was driving got out and was fueling. All the sudden I hear him talking to someone. I look in the back and all of my crew is in the truck. I quietly open my door and walk around back of the truck. I find 1 guy chatting up my partner and 3 others on the corner staring at him. Now we've got the first guy between us and I'm between him and the other 3 guys. He realizes I'm there and watching him. He now knows the jig is up, ends his conversation and rolls out. He rejoined his buddies and they all walked down the street together. I'm sure we were gonna get jacked for our drugs. If it wasn't for my partner getting hurt in the process it might have been funny for them to try (i said might, obviously we don't know if they were armed. Unlike a normal ambulance with just 2, there was 6 young guys in the truck (we were shuttling to the event).
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