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Old December 16, 2011, 06:28 PM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Moron.

This guy is supposed to be a lawyer and he thinks going TO New York City and staying there for two or three days is "in temporary transit through"?

Words fail me.

No, I do not agree with New York's gun laws, but as of now they ARE the law and we ignore them at our peril. What I want to know is why this guy is out walking the streets when the gentleman who was arrested at Newark Airport awhile back (Greg Revell) when he WAS legitimately "in transit" spent three days in the cooler and very nearly did hard time. I guess it helps to be a media celebrity.
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Old December 16, 2011, 06:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim March
This is all speculation until we know his point of origin. It seems VERY likely to me this is another FOPA violation on NY's part. It's happened before and it'll keep happening until the 2A is really fixed in NY and NYC generally.
He had been IN New York for several days. That means his point of origin was New York. And he wasn't legal to possess the handgun in New York. Ergo, the FOPA does not apply in this case, because it rests on the prerequisite that possession is legal at the place where the journey starts and in the place where the journey ends.

I don't see this case as being the same as Revell's at all. Greg Revell really WAS "in transit." The only reason he spent the night in an airport hotel was a missed connection.
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Old December 16, 2011, 07:41 PM   #28
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If he had been in compliance with FOPA there would be a defense and therefore would be no standing to challenge the law, if that is his intent. The law, in my opinion is facially unconstitutional as it is a complete ban for any non-residents.

I hope this case is otherwise without negative coloration and that he pursues injunctive relief. On the other hand, the SCOTUS has not appeared anxious to address the scope of the 2A through the litigation of criminal cases, so the scope may need to be tackled on the civil front.
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Old December 16, 2011, 07:44 PM   #29
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If they can rule the non-res ban unconstitutional guess which city-state will lose a few thousand citizens?
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Old December 16, 2011, 08:08 PM   #30
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I would caution members that posting that a certain state should be ...

will caused you to be ...

Many members of TFL may reside in a state with bad gun laws and fight for the RKBA. You might think you are demonstrating your great wit - but you are not.

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Old December 17, 2011, 12:32 AM   #31
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Quote:
he man in question stayed in NYC for two days and then went back to the airport.
Quote:
Sounds like he stayed in NYC for two days.
Where are you getting this? That wasn't in the linked story or another story I saw.
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Old December 17, 2011, 12:42 AM   #32
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Looks like it was longer than two days. Not sure what source I saw stating two days. But he in fact, was there longer than two days according to a couple of news accounts:

Quote:
A prominent tea party leader was charged with a felony Thursday after he took a gun to New York City’s LaGuardia Airport and it was discovered during a pre-flight check-in.

Mark Meckler, co-founder of the conservative Tea Party Patriots group, was arrested after he tried to check in for a Delta airlines flight with a locked box containing a Glock pistol and 19 units of 9mm ammunition, according to a release from the Queens District Attorney’s office.

Meckler, who had been in New York since Sunday, allegedly told authorities that he carries the gun because he gets threats.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz1gleet1YH
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Old December 17, 2011, 12:46 AM   #33
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From the NYC DA's office press release:

Quote:
District Attorney Brown said that, according to the charges, Meckler presented a locked gun box to a Delta Airlines ticket agent at approximately 5:20 a.m. this morning, December 15, 2011, during check-in. It is alleged that the box contained a Glock 27 pistol and nineteen 9mm cartridges. Meckler, who has been in New York since Sunday, December 11, 2011, allegedly told authorities that he had the pistol because he gets threats and that he does not have a New York State carry permit.
http://www.queensda.org/newpressrele...arr_update.pdf

FOPA does not cover an extended stay in NYC since he was not traveling from the 11th to the 15th. I truly believe that this man is in serious trouble and will be lucky to avoid jail time and even more lucky to keep his right to practice law anywhere in this nation. If he did this on purpose, wow, really a dumb move in my opinion.
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Old December 17, 2011, 01:03 AM   #34
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I think he'd have a hard time using FOPA as a defense.

The two possibilities I see are that he's fishing for a lawsuit, or he's just foolish. Neither bodes well.

As far as a lawsuit, it's highly unlikely he'd prevail, since he was committing a (in that locale) criminal act. I really hope he doesn't expect the SAF or NRA to come running to his defense: they're busy trying to bring good lawsuits that actually have a chance of winning.
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Old December 17, 2011, 01:11 AM   #35
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The man has a law degree which makes him an officer of the courts. He will be held to a higher standard because of that as well as his political positions on the 2A. Very sad to see this case. He of all people should have known much better than this.

It will not turn out well for him or his political movement. It is a reminder of the disparity between the different states and how they interpret/deny the 2A. I was also unaware of just how dangerous MA is as well despite all of my reading on CCW in different states. I was unaware of the serious punishment for simple possession. Man, just stay away from the New England area, it is a real quagmire.
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Old December 17, 2011, 09:02 AM   #36
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The law, in my opinion is facially unconstitutional as it is a complete ban for any non-residents.
That, and he was not arrested during a stay-over in NY.

He was apprehended at an airport in the act of traveling.

FOPA applies here.

If anybody thinks this is not an intentional set up for a fall of the judicial system, let me interest you in a tunnel between New Jersey and Manhattan originally owned by Abraham Lincoln.
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Old December 17, 2011, 09:57 AM   #37
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They made him stay in state for several days in violation of the law?

Granted we oppose the NY laws, but if you disobey such - that's your problem unless you want to make a statement.
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Old December 17, 2011, 11:25 AM   #38
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They made him stay in state for several days in violation of the law?
Can the prosecutor prove possession of the gun while laid over? Not if this guy is any kind of an attorney. All they have is the guy had a gun that was locked in a case sans ammo at the airport while traveling. All legal under FOID.
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Old December 17, 2011, 11:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Secret Agent Man
That, and he was not arrested during a stay-over in NY.

He was apprehended at an airport in the act of traveling.

FOPA applies here.
A fundamental prerequisite of the FOPA is that possession (or "carry") of the firearm must be legal in the place where the journey begins and the place where the journey ends. He is not legal to even possess a handgun in New York state ... the FOPA does NOT apply.
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Old December 17, 2011, 12:08 PM   #40
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A fundamental prerequisite of the FOPA is that possession (or "carry") of the firearm must be legal in the place where the journey begins and the place where the journey ends.
What SAM is trying to say is that he may be able to prove that he did not "posses" it in NYC. Of course they might show constructive possession.
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Old December 17, 2011, 12:36 PM   #41
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If he was in NY for several days - did the gun materialize at the airport? Did someone with the legal right to have it - give it to him at the gate?

Is such a transfer legal?

I think he screwed himself for not understanding such.

That being said - I think it is a constitutional issue that you can be convicted of a felony for an action legal in so many states - that of being a law abiding citizen possessing a firearm. Unfortunately, Heller, etc. did not wash away all restrictions against law abiding citizens simply owning and transporting firearms.
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Old December 17, 2011, 12:44 PM   #42
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I don't see where it's entirely obvious that he stayed in New York during the period of his "stopover". Could well be he rented/borrowed a car and drove to Pennsylvania, for example, during the period between his arrival into and planned departure from New York.

As far as I can tell, compliance with FOPA has not been entirely disproven.
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Old December 17, 2011, 01:03 PM   #43
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Hence the constructive possession. Unless he really set it up well he is likely in a tight spot.
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Old December 17, 2011, 01:04 PM   #44
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Well, it should be easy to track his time and place. We will have to see. If he didn't go directly to the airport but stayed overnight - that's going to be trouble.

If at trial - this should be a constitutional case and pushed to the highest levels - even if he was remiss in following NY's ridiculous laws.
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Old December 17, 2011, 01:25 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
That being said - I think it is a constitutional issue that you can be convicted of a felony for an action legal in so many states - that of being a law abiding citizen possessing a firearm. Unfortunately, Heller, etc. did not wash away all restrictions against law abiding citizens simply owning and transporting firearms.
I agree with this completely. I am an "originalist" (or "strict constructionist," if you prefer). The 2nd Amendment clearly says the RKBA "shall not be infringed," yet the SCOTUS has apparently ruled that the RKBA CAN be infringed -- but not unreasonably. Nowhere have I ever suggested that I like or support or agree with New York's (or New Jersey's, or Illinois') draconian firearms laws. But, unless and until overruled by the Supreme Court, those ARE the laws in those jurisdictions.

I don't think arguments about "he might have slept in Pennsylvania" are really productive. He was arrested in a NEW YORK airport with a handgun he is not legal to possess in New York. That's prima facie evidence of a violation. The State of New York does not have to prove that he slept in New York Wednesday night -- if he's going to claim FOPA protection, then he's going to have to prove that his journey originated in some jurisdiction where he is legally allowed to have a handgun.

FWIW, he is apparently not making that claim. Instead, he seems to be trying to claim that a trip involving a multi-day stop IN NYC was not a trip "to" NYC but was "transiting through" NYC. I have to say, I'm as pro-RKBA as they come (or nearly so), and I wouldn't buy that argument.
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Old December 17, 2011, 02:42 PM   #46
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Why are you all so worried about FOPA. The fact is New York ids wrong for stepping on the 2nd amendment.

He has the right to bear arms under the 2nd amendment and he has the right to own that gun under Article IV section one of the constitution. Some of you think he is a dummy, I think he knows exactly what he is doing and is the first man with a little clout, influence and money to make a Federal case out of this. New York and Mayor Booperburger needs to have his law shoved down his throat till he chokes on it.

Bloomingbergermeister has been all over the country with his sting operations and is constantly in court with his lawsuits harassing gun makers and dealers. His corruption riddled MAIG is a propaganda machine for his anti-American ideals and he needs to be slapped up alongside the head with cold hard facts. We had our test case in Chicago and won, we had our test case in Washington DC and won. Now it is New York's turn to get spanked. This garbage of screaming anti-second liberals riding rough shod over the people of the USA has to stop and where better to do it than New York City.
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Old December 17, 2011, 02:58 PM   #47
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This is clearly NOT an FOPA case.
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Old December 17, 2011, 03:43 PM   #48
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Quote:
A fundamental prerequisite of the FOPA is that possession (or "carry") of the firearm must be legal in the place where the journey begins and the place where the journey ends
I am assuming that Meckler's journey did begin in a state where possession is legal. Meckler is a CA resident, so that is a logical starting point for the journey. But so far there is nothing definitive on that.

Constructive possession under New York law could indeed be problematic with regard to FOPA. If he's smart, Meckler left the gun in a locker at the airport during his little travel break.

If the State of New York is smart, it will drop the charges.

Alan Gura must be teething at the bit on this one.

If he isn't involved already.

There's a good possibility this case has been tailored on in advance.
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Old December 17, 2011, 04:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
Sounds like he stayed in NYC for two days. That will present a problem to his defense. FOPA does not cover that. There is discussion whether FOPA covers stopping at a gas station and eating as well. If this man did this on purpose, oh my, I think he will see jail time out of this and be forgotten from the front page all to soon.


I remember a story of a guy who was supposed to get a connecting flight in NJ, flight was canceled because of weather. When he tried to check his firearm the next day they arrested him. I really don't care what the law does and does not say, it doesn't take a moron to figure out the above situation is unjust.
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Old December 17, 2011, 04:47 PM   #50
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I agree NYC would be smart to drop the charges as they do in the majority of similar cases and issue a find instead. However, whoever accused NYC officials of being smart in the first place?
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