The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 13, 2011, 10:54 AM   #1
Southern Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2005
Location: central Louisiana
Posts: 443
If you had to choose......Golden Saber 124 gr +P or 147 gr non+P

I have a choice of Remington Golden Saber 124 gr +P or 147 gr non+P ammo to add to my storage. Cost of each is equal.

These would be fired from my Glock 17 Gen 4 or my Ruger P89.

Which would you choose? Why?

Thanks
__________________
"My plea is that we stop seeking out the storm and enjoy more fully sunlight. I am suggesting that as we go through life we accentuate the positive. I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort." Gordon B. Hinckley
Southern Shooter is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 11:06 AM   #2
ScotchMan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 3, 2011
Posts: 1,354
I carry 147gr. Overall feedback seems to favor heavier, slower bullets, and I like subsonic ammo so that if I ever have to use it, the damage to my hearing might be a little less.

Otherwise I think the performance differences are negligible.
__________________
Everyday Loadout

NRA Instructor
NRA Member
ScotchMan is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 11:09 AM   #3
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Which shoots better from your guns?
MLeake is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 11:11 AM   #4
mavracer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2008
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,993
147s have more momentum and will have a slightly larger perminate wound channel, 124+p in a 4.5 to 5" gun are at the bottom of the energy level for temporary cavity to have some effect so in these barrels IMHO it's a coin toss. In short barrels 3-3.5" the 124s loose enough velocity that they just don't make enough temporary cavity to be any factor so I'd lean toward 147s. Usually 147s will shoot just a touch higher than 124+p. The one that shoots closest to POA would be my first choice.
__________________
rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Quote:
originally posted my Mike Irwin
My handguns are are for one purpose only, though...
The starter gun on the "Fat man's mad dash tactical retreat."
mavracer is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 11:34 AM   #5
nate45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,746


Looks like they are both pretty much the same. Unless you believe 64 foot pounds of energy will help you. I don't think it matters.

Both of them expand and penetrate 12+ inches so flip a coin. Or better yet, buy one box of each and see which shoots best in your gun and one feels best to you.
__________________
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
(>_<)
nate45 is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 11:45 AM   #6
Fargazer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2010
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 466
I use 147 Remmy Golden Saber for two reasons:
  • 147 is more accurate in my Walther pistols
  • I am unwilling to stress my pistols with +P
    • especially given the minimal differences in stopping power between the two rounds
__________________
NRA Life Member
Fargazer is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 12:01 PM   #7
oneounceload
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2008
Location: N. Central Florida
Posts: 8,518
I use 124's in 9mm as they seem to be the most accurate in MY guns - YMMV
oneounceload is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 12:22 PM   #8
481
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Posts: 469
I'd go with the 147 gr. JHPs.

They produce greater penetration (necessary in today's environment where larger, heavier individuals are more frequently encountered) and will produce a bit less recoil than the 124 gr. +P JHPs making followup shots that much easier.
481 is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 12:58 PM   #9
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
My BHP can't run +P; it shoots best with 124std.

My PX4 SC slings anything lighter than 147 pretty low.

My PX4 compact thrives on 115 or 124 +P.

Again, what do your guns shoot best?
MLeake is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 01:52 PM   #10
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,775
I prefer the 124gr+P.
Skadoosh is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 03:26 PM   #11
Noreaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 30, 2011
Location: New England
Posts: 1,325
Both are great rounds. I'd probably go with the 124 +P. Great expansion and good penetration. On the other hand being it's winter here in the North East I'd rather have a 147 grain load for this time of year. Guess my opinion wasn't a great help.
Noreaster is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 03:55 PM   #12
C0untZer0
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2011
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,555
I like the 147gr better. I like that they penetrate to right around 14" and expand in the .61" to .67" range.

In general the 124gr come up a little shorter - 12" to 13" penetration, although they expand a little more - .64" to .68"
C0untZer0 is offline  
Old December 13, 2011, 05:13 PM   #13
Coltman 77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,244
Whatever Golden Saber you choose make sure it is the bonded variety.

Happy shooting. Be safe.
__________________
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated".
Ernest Hemingway

Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA
Coltman 77 is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 03:29 AM   #14
MikeNice81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2010
Posts: 579
From my own informal tests the 147gr penetrates less and expands more. The 124gr+p penetrated more and expanded less through clothing. Both rounds penetrated well though and expanded consistently.

I carry 147gr in 9mm because they handle barriers a little bit better. Plus the standard pressure doesn't wear the gun as much.
__________________
Here's my credo: There are no good guns, There are no bad guns. A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a good man is no threat to anyone, except bad people.
Charlton Heston
MikeNice81 is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 12:20 PM   #15
peacefulgary
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 524
In my opinion the 9mm performs best with high velocity high energy loads.

From all that I have seen, heard, and read, 147g non-plus-P 9mm ammo does not have a good reputation for quickly stopping aggressive humans.
peacefulgary is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 12:31 PM   #16
Constantine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 5,178
I have golden savers 124gr +p in my SIG P226 and the other mag is speer gold dots. Don't think the 124gr GS is bonded though.

SA 1911 - XD45 - G21sf - RIA 1911 - G22 - G27 - Hk USP 40 - SIG P226 E2 - Browning High-Power - S&W M19-3 - CZ-82 - S&W 642 - Remington 870
Constantine is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 01:17 PM   #17
(*_*)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2011
Location: AL
Posts: 160
124 +P
(*_*) is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 01:39 PM   #18
nate45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by peacefulgary
In my opinion the 9mm performs best with high velocity high energy loads.

From all that I have seen, heard, and read, 147g non-plus-P 9mm ammo does not have a good reputation for quickly stopping aggressive humans.
Where do you get high velocity, high energy loads for 9mm Parabellum?

I demonstrated in post #5 that there is only a 64 foot pound muzzle energy difference between the 124 grain +P Golden Saber and the 147 grain Golden Saber. Thats is not a significant difference.

As far as the bad reputation of the 147 grain 9mm goes, reality doesn't bare that out. Many police departments have issued it for years now, with good results.
__________________
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
(>_<)
nate45 is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 01:47 PM   #19
481
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2011
Posts: 469
Quote:
As far as the bad reputation of the 147 grain 9mm goes, reality doesn't bare that out.
nate,

Lotta people who visit and read Chuck Hawks' 'site still believe that the 9mm 147 gr. JHPs are "bad" loads.

It serves as a reminder that even useless garbage put on the 'net stays there for an awfully long time.
481 is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 03:13 PM   #20
Walklightly
Junior member
 
Join Date: September 28, 2011
Posts: 985
Quote:
147s have more momentum and will have a slightly larger perminate wound channel,
It's on paper, it must be tue.

I use GDHP 124g +Ps because thats what I bought from NYSP over stock.
Walklightly is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 04:17 PM   #21
fastbolt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 9, 2002
Location: northern CA for a little while longer
Posts: 1,488
Which load shoots & functions best in your Glock & Ruger, being fired in your hands?

I used 147gr loads for many years (provided at no cost). I later switched to 127gr +P+ and then later still to 124gr +P (Golden Sabre non-bonded) ... again, because both were being provided at work.

I didn't lose any sleep over carrying any of them.

I was much more concerned about optimal feeding & functioning in my pistols, maintaining my pistols and practicing frequently.

FWIW, I won't get caught up in the whole bonded v. non-bonded debate, except to say that if I were spending my own money on Golden Sabre rounds for defensive carry, and both types were on the counter in front of me, I'd still buy and use the non-bonded variety. Suit yourself, if this is an issue for you.

Why not try a couple of boxes of each in your guns and decide which runs best, and shoots best, for you?

Whichever you buy, consider using them for practice in your guns at least periodically, and then test-fire some occasional rounds from random rounds from new boxes/cases (production lots) as you replenish them.

Just my thoughts.
__________________
Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer
fastbolt is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 04:23 PM   #22
sgms
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 30, 2010
Location: Arizona or Ohio depending
Posts: 760
147 just me, I do not have any big reason just like the heavier bullet.
sgms is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 08:43 PM   #23
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 11,482
I doub it really matters, but out of the two, I'd go with the 147gr.

I'm a believer in putting the most mass in your target and opt for mass over speed every time.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 10:06 PM   #24
ak2323
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 8, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 190
Isn't the golden saber a little old-school compared to the newer rounds?
ak2323 is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 10:24 PM   #25
(*_*)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2011
Location: AL
Posts: 160
I noticed I never said why the 124. Its because to me the recoil feels less with the 124 rounds. Not sure why, just feels better to shoot. Will take any advantage I can.
__________________
Though i did not know the place, i set out for the land of my dreams.
Having arrived at the land of my dreams, i found i did not know the place.
(*_*) is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14708 seconds with 7 queries