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Old February 18, 2012, 06:16 PM   #101
Armybrat
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Arizona....whadda state!

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Old February 18, 2012, 09:18 PM   #102
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I'm not a huge fan of open carry, but that's a very cool idea and nicely implemented. Although I'd want a full-coverage flap holster to try to cut down on the amount of road dust getting into the gun.
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Old February 18, 2012, 11:27 PM   #103
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CC for me.

OC would be a nice option, but I'd nearly never use it.
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Old February 19, 2012, 12:28 AM   #104
arentol
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The best source in the world for answers to this question is here:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...Why-Open-Carry

As to the negative responses here to the idea of OC.... Most of them are completely baseless.

Thugs will steal your gun?
I believe this has been reported all of 2 times in the last 20 years in the US to non-police OC'ers. However, you can't compare those incidents to "normal" OC as I believe in both cases the person had been a prior victim of the thugs that stole their gun. In other words, they were already known to be an easy mark and having a gun didn't change that in the minds of the thugs that already knew them. It would have been entirely different with someone the thugs didn't know.

You will be the first person shot?
The reality is that if thugs see you OC'ing before they actually commit their crime they won't commit the crime at all and so you won't be shot. Both interviews with felons and actual experiences of OC'ers has shown this to be definitively true. Thugs know that if they shoot a police officer they are screwed, and when they see an OC'er they don't know what you are, but assume you may be a police officer, so they don't fark with you.

You can find the rest of the rebuttals on the forums linked above.
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Old February 19, 2012, 01:34 AM   #105
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I carry a 1911 OWB, sometimes covered with a jacket, sometimes not. I think if it was a Glock or some other hammerless auto, I would get few comments. With the 1911 however, I get barraged with "Um, sir, do you know your gun is cocked?" or from people I know;
"Good jumping Jesus Christ! Why do you have that thing cocked?"
"Uh, because that's the only safe way to carry a 1911 loaded, Chief. It's got two safeties."
"Well why don't you just carry it with the chamber empty?"

This is from people who are around guns constantly. The amount of ignorance is astounding. So I try to educate them... But something about that exposed, cocked hammer gives a lot of people the heeby jeebies...

I approve of open carry but I try to blend in to wherever I am; if open carry is suitable where I am, then that's great. But I'm not going to walk around downtown Nashville OCing. It just wouldn't be a great idea.
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Old February 19, 2012, 03:00 AM   #106
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Quote:
The best source in the world for answers to this question is here:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/fo...Why-Open-Carry
Not really. It's not the best source by any stretch, in fact, it's probably a particularly bad source if what you're looking for is unbiased, fact-based, information.

If there were a source that was called "forum.anti-opencarry.org/forums/Why-Not-To-Open-Carry", it would probably be an equally bad place to find unbiased, fact-based, information about open carrying.

For unbiased, purely factual information, it's usually a bad idea to go to either a proponent or an opponent of the issue at hand, because both of them are almost certainly biased.
Quote:
The reality is that if thugs see you OC'ing before they actually commit their crime they won't commit the crime at all and so you won't be shot.
We know this isn't always true because it is not uncommon for crimes to be committed in the presence of openly armed security guards. Said another way, it is not uncommon for openly armed persons to be shot as a prelude to a crime that would otherwise be committed in their presence.

You also mentioned that you knew of a couple of cases where persons openly wearing firearms were attacked for their firearm. That also clearly indicates that open carry isn't a guarantee of deterrence.

It is true that openly carried firearms sometimes, maybe even most times, deter crime, but it's clearly false to claim or imply that they always deter crime. That means that it's also clearly false to claim or imply that there's no need to worry about the possibiity that a determined criminal might decide to proceed anyway or about what reasonable/logical course of action a determined criminal might pursue if he decides to proceed with the crime.
Quote:
I believe this has been reported all of 2 times in the last 20 years in the US to non-police OC'ers. However, you can't compare those incidents to "normal" OC as I believe in both cases the person had been a prior victim of the thugs that stole their gun. In other words, they were already known to be an easy mark and having a gun didn't change that in the minds of the thugs that already knew them. It would have been entirely different with someone the thugs didn't know.
First of all, you know of 2 reports. That doesn't mean that it has only been reported 2 times--it just means that those are the only two reports you know about. And even if we accept for the sake of argument that it really has only been reported 2 times, that wouldn't mean it had only happened 2 times.

This particular argument really irritates me because it used to be commonly claimed that it had NEVER happened and that, as a consequence it wasn't something anybody ever needed to worry about. I thought that was highly unlikely, so I spent a few minutes searching on the internet and, not surprisingly, I found a case where it had actually happened. Since then, other examples have been found. It does happen, it has happened and it will almost certainly happen again. Is it likely? Nope, not in my opinion, but that's not the same as saying it's absolutely not something to be concerned about at all.

Second, even if there weren't any known reports, that still wouldn't mean it hasn't happened and, more importantly, it wouldn't mean it couldn't happen.

Third, it's critical to understand that since OC isn't common, ANY type of reported event involving OC is also going to be fairly uncommon. The paucity of reported incidents involving OC'ers attacked for their guns can not be properly interpreted without statistics to indicate what percentage of citizens in that area carry openly.

As an example, suppose that there were only 4 smokers in the entire world. One might, in that hypothetical world, argue that smoking was quite safe because there were only 2 reports of people dying of lung cancer from smoking. The problem is that in our hypothetical world containing only 4 smokers that amounts to HALF the smokers dying from lung cancer. Clearly smoking would be very dangerous in that situation, but if one didn't know that there are only 4 smokers to begin with, the initial claim that only 2 deaths had resulted would give a totally incorrect impression.

Similarly, if it happened to be true that in the area where one of these incidents took place, there are only 10 people who frequently open carry, that would mean the chances of being attacked for your gun if you open carry in that area would be something like 1 chance in 10. Certainly a VERY different picture than the one painted by saying that only one incident has been reported in the area.
Quote:
You can find the rest of the rebuttals on the forums linked above.
I hate to say it, but most of the "rebuttals" are not "rebuttals" at all. What they are is generally poor attempts to make light of or dismiss real concerns in support of the skewed perception of many OC proponents that OC has no disadvantages.

I generally try to avoid this topic because it's such a can of worms, but the reality is that there ARE disadvantages to OC, just as there are disadvantages to CC. I do get tired of seeing folks on either side of this argument try to sweep things under the rug so that they can continue pretending that their preferred approach is better in every way than the other guy's.

The fact is that both approaches have advantages and disadvantages. OC makes sense in some situations but not in all situations. CC makes sense in some situations but is inferior to OC in other situations.
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Old February 20, 2012, 12:17 AM   #107
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I carry both ways & have never had a negative reaction to OC. You will rarely see a Harley rider without OC & many others here in Az. It just ain't no big deal here. I can draw faster from OC than CC & it is way more comfortable for me in most circumstances. I don't think most people even notice. At 3:00 - 3:30 my arm is covering the gun, closely in a crowd or in line.
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Old February 20, 2012, 02:11 AM   #108
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I am not against open carry in any way but I personally don't open carry. I like the element of suprise on my side
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Old February 20, 2012, 02:13 AM   #109
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Carry open is very dangerous, I believe the police may come over and ask for your ID.
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Old February 20, 2012, 02:20 AM   #110
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The amount of ignorance is astounding. So I try to educate them...
Don Quixote', much?

I'm not saying that is's not the right thing to do, but it's just not effective......
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Old February 20, 2012, 02:25 AM   #111
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I believe the police may come over and ask for your ID.
....and depending upon the police attitude in your juridiction, that can get you a high five, arrested, or worse*.

*I understand asphalt leaves a bad taste in your mouth on a hot day...
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Old February 20, 2012, 07:33 AM   #112
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I would rather conceal carry, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't have the right to open carry. I like the idea of hidingthe gun and it not be seen. I do, however, believe that conceal carry shouldn't require a permit. But it does, so I plan to get one. And with the conceal carry permit, it makes it legal to have a loaded handgun in your vehicle.
Why do people want to take the rights of people away? If people want to open carry, they should open carry. And who are we to judge who is to be allowed? Just because they don't look like a "responsible citizen" means they shouldn't openly carry a .45? I try not to judge people on how they look. For all we know that guy who we think is a "thug" is really just a man trying to protect himself from the same people everyone else. Just because they don't look, in our minds, normal doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed their rights. If they are actually a criminal, they aren't allowed to have that gun anyways. And if they are a criminal, chances are they won't care.
The arguement of carrying openly so bad people think you are a cop so they won't commit a crime is a little silly. How many cops have been shot? Far too many. Plus, around here I've never seen an officer wearing normal clothes unless they are off duty. And the more hardcore criminals here know who the cops are, this is a somewhat small town and everyone knows who everyone is. If you dont know them, someone you know does. And I don't believe having a gun openly carried is meant to scare criminals away. Thats almost as bad as saying the action on a pump action will scare criminals away. If they want to do something and are committed to doing so, the idea of you having a gun wont stop them from trying. And I also believe it makes you a target for thieves they probably won't try to steal it from you, but what if they follow you home? They know you have at least one gun, and probably more. Druggies who are thieves will do anything to get high. They don't care what is, they will try to sell it. It's uncommon in this area for breakins, but I'm not willing to chance it.
With all of this being said, I believe it's people's right to open carry and conceal carry, I'd just rather conceal.
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Old February 20, 2012, 08:43 AM   #113
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Can see advantages and disadvantages of both. Also, I don't condemn either. My personal preference is cc.
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Old February 20, 2012, 05:57 PM   #114
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In WA we have the option to open carry. Washington is also a Shall Issue state for concealed carry and the fee is low, with zero training requirement. I have a CC permit (called a Concealed Pistol License or CPL here). I open carry for only a few days a year, when hunting/fishing/camping. Here's why:

In metro Seattle if I walk into the mall with a visible firearm on my hip and not wearing a uniform I will become an object of interest and comment (and fear). People will notice and will shuttle their children away to safety. Law enforcement or security may be called and I'll have to deal with an unpleasant hassle.

If I drive 100 miles east on I90 I can carry the same firearm in the same way and no one will comment. It will create no hubub at all.

Since I live and work in the Seattle area I carry concealed. It's easier. Open carry here neither educates nor convinces. It just makes for a long day.

I like the idea of OC. But in the present state of affairs where most people live it makes a mess. I also don't know why we assume that it is possible to "educate" the public. To me, a person who OC's to "educate" is an annoyance of the same order as anti-globalization protestors who periodically shut down traffic with protests in parts of the city. How do the protestors think they are going to convince me to come around to their point of view by annoying me? I'm less likely to convert if you've turned my 10 minute drive into a 2 hour ordeal not more likely.
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Old February 20, 2012, 09:38 PM   #115
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Wisely stated lawnboy.
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Old February 20, 2012, 10:41 PM   #116
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How do the protestors think they are going to convince me to come around to their point of view by annoying me?
To hear them tell it, they're changing the world, though I've yet to see any evidence of that.
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Old February 21, 2012, 10:02 AM   #117
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I wish TX had an OC law. When the thermometer is popping at 100+ most of the summer, I'm limited to pocket carrying a small 9mm .. would love to carry my Kimber UCII, but it's too big for a pocket and I hate IWB ... I'm happy with the Kahr, but being able to OC a 1911 would make me happier ... I've been generally opposed to OC for a number of reasons, but I'm starting to rethink my position ...
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Old February 21, 2012, 10:15 AM   #118
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I CC for two main reasons.

1. I don't have a good OC holster and I don't want to buy any more holsters.

2. If people are unaware that I am carrying I feel I have the advantage.
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Old February 21, 2012, 01:30 PM   #119
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I only CC. OC is legal in WI and I have nothing against it but I'm around too many of the wrong people to be advertizing that I have a gun (people very much involved in the criminal justice system). It would be just asking for trouble.
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Old February 21, 2012, 02:28 PM   #120
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Closest I come to open carry is when I'm packing a rifle while hunting.
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Old February 21, 2012, 03:47 PM   #121
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Closest I come to open carry is when I'm packing a rifle while hunting.
Same here, only not a rifle but some form of revolver used for hunting.

I also OC quite frequently here walking the woods around the house, working in the field etc.
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Old February 21, 2012, 08:10 PM   #122
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hear you Bikerbill,Texas need OC if for no other reason other then carrying discreetly in summer
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Old February 21, 2012, 08:31 PM   #123
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Here in New Hampshire we have a open carry law and CCW permits. I open carry and have had a couple people freak out but have had more people ask me about the laws and carrying a gun and have taught a couple collage girls to shoot. There are these people in NH that go overboard in my mind when they OC. Look for free staters in NH on youtube. When police confront them they give them a hard time about doing nothing wrong and will not give police there I.D. just so they can check them out. In my mind if you not doing anything wrong or got nothing to hide whats wrong with the police checking your I.D. You be nice to them they be nice to you and let you on your way after.
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Old February 24, 2012, 10:34 AM   #124
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HKfan9...your comments are very well put...and fit my thoughts to a tee. I've edited in bold to add my own caveat.

"Only in the woods.. in the civil world I cover it up.... I think open carry is a double edged sword...Some who open carry do so for the wrong reasons (to look and act macho). The last thing any of us need is macho man wiz bang running around with a Glock on his hip in an open top holster infront of all the Anti's."

Best Regards, Rod
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Old February 24, 2012, 11:54 AM   #125
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The last thing I want anybody to know about me is that I'm armed. Just my preference. I would never open carry.
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