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Old December 19, 2011, 08:12 AM   #76
TexasJustice7
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OrionEngnr: Really?

You don't know much about TX, either.

Do you actually have a TX CHL? If you did, and your instuctor understood anything at all, you would not be posting t
In regards to the other poster from Texas which you addressed, perhaps he lives in Austin. I have heard it is somewhat unfriendly toward cwp carry people. Don't have any personal knowledge of it. When I first carried I worried about the bulge of my CA 44 in a paddle holster. My brother who is in law enforcement said you can see the imprint of a woman's breast, that does not mean it is visible, and that it is intentional unconcealment that is a problem. Open carry would remove any problems in the area of unconcealment that came up, but I would not open carry myself.
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Old December 19, 2011, 08:35 AM   #77
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Thanks again John for the legal clarifications.

I've never OC'd while in Texas but it's wise to know the letter of the law in case one had a mind to. Rolling the dice and hoping illegal OC would be overlooked, IMO, just wouldn't be worth the possible ramifications if the LEO would chose to push the issue.
Also, wouldn't it be fair to say that if a person were OC'ing for SD purposes only, anywhere in Texas, even in a town/area where it has a tendency to be overlooked and got into a SD situation in which he/she had to use their OC'd weapon, wouldn't that be another area the OC'er would have worry about when they went to court to defend their SD actions?

If so, IMO, I just wouldn't want to give some slimeball's defense att'y any ammo and you could be for certain the slimeballs att'y would point out the fact I was breaking the law OC'ing and shouldn't have had a gun in the first place cause I wasn't responsible enough to follow the laws of owning a gun. Let alone carrying one in public.

In short, if you carry a gun for SD in public and have to use it in a SD situation, when you get to court over the incident, you better have all your I's dotted and T's crossed, and that includes your LEGAL mode of carry.
The Judge your standing in front of may not 'overlook' the law like your local LE may and you can be certain the slimeballs att'y won't.

Last edited by shortwave; December 19, 2011 at 08:40 AM.
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Old December 19, 2011, 08:45 AM   #78
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I CCW 99% of the time. About the only time I open carry is when I am hunting. I live in Idaho so it is a pretty open carry friendly state. The reason I dont open carry more is I hate waist band holsters (both IWB and OWB), most of the the other options to carry are CCW.
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Old December 19, 2011, 09:19 AM   #79
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I'm still debating with myself whether to get a CCW liscence or not. As far as I'm concerned, I don't feel I should have to per the U.S. Constitution. The legal mumbo jumbo is another thing. Here in Texas it is perfectly legal to have a handgun in your auto per the "Castle Doctrine" but to CC you must get (i.e. purchase) a liscence. I don't like being on Govt. lists or giving them more of my hard earned money. But then, I won't wear a seat belt either.
Gun does no good in the glove box while you are out of the vehicle. If Texas is anything like FLA carry a gun concealed with no permit FELONY. If you are caught charged with a felony convicted all the guns go by-by. Don't get the permit, go to jail, do not pass go, do not own firearms legally forever more.
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Old December 19, 2011, 09:27 AM   #80
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Here in Texas. I open carried as a youngster. Going into town to pick stuff up for my Dad. Also had a rifle in a rack in the back of the truck. Not 2 legged critters we carried for then. Was no big deal.

Today I conceal carry in town/public. I much prefer it. I am secure in my safety. I do not advertise I am armed and I feel I have the advantage there. So if Open Carry was legal here I would still CC. I occasionally open carry here on the ranch. Mainly during spring when snakes are waking up. I also open carry at the office depending on what holster setup I have that day.

I find the entire thing (open carry issue) silly here in Texas. I can walk down Main Street with a fully loaded AK47 over my shoulder and am perfectly legal. Open carry a .22 pistol and I am a felon. Silly aint it?
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Old December 19, 2011, 12:14 PM   #81
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But then, I won't wear a seat belt either.
Texas doesn't have seatbelt laws?
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Old December 19, 2011, 12:57 PM   #82
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No offence to anyone but my impression of those who insist on their right to open carry a deadly weapon also insist that the government has no right to insist they wear seat belts.
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Old December 19, 2011, 12:59 PM   #83
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They have a point, BT.

The government could have very well applied pressure simply by saying, "If you don't wear a seat belt, that's your call, but your Personal Injury Protection will be paid at the discretion of your insurer. If you don't carry insurance, the government will not pay for your medical treatment."

Frankly, I'd have preferred to see them go that route.
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Old December 19, 2011, 04:34 PM   #84
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Too, does the Austin city limit ban the use of weapons for SD purposes for your dog against yotes?
Let's not get confused here.

SD laws are state laws and apply to protecting yourself primarily - not your property or your doggie.

All major metros have laws against discharging firearms inside their boundaries unless you are at a sanctioned facility.

Shooting the coyote is definitely a gray area. I strongly suspect that if we did that lawyers and police would be involved a heartbeat, especially in a liberal town like Austin.
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Old December 19, 2011, 06:11 PM   #85
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Lets not get confused here.
Quote:
SD laws are state laws and apply to protecting yourself primarily- not your property or doggie
What about the 'castle doctrine' laws pertaining to property. And is your dog considered 'your property' according to Texas castle doctrine laws?

Boy, now I'm really cornfused!

Quote:
Shooting the coyote is definitely a gray area. I strongly suspect that if we did that lawyers and police would be involved in a heartbeat, especially in a liberal town like Austin.
ak2323,

Please read JohnKSa's last post paying particular attention to the third paragraph down.

Too, this is your 2nd post about the governor shooting a coyote within Austin city limits. You've not given any real facts of the case to substantiate the governor being wrong/right in his actions.... and... has nothing to do with OC or CC laws. Just cause he's the governor, doesn't he have the right to protect himself/property as everyone else in Texas?

Hell, I'd be thankful for a governor that believed enough in the 2nd Amend. to arm himself.
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Old December 19, 2011, 08:46 PM   #86
Doug Bowser
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In Mississippi, it is a concealed carry permit. Open carry is not allowed. The law does say you are in violation, only if carrying concealed without a license. The catch is the law reads it is a violation without a permit to carry, concealed "in whole or part". If you are carrying in a holster outside your clothes without a permit, the handgun is partially concealed by the holster. Therefore it is concealed and you are in violation.

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Old December 20, 2011, 10:01 AM   #87
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No offence to anyone but my impression of those who insist on their right to open carry a deadly weapon also insist that the government has no right to insist they wear seat belts.
None taken, but yes. That would be me. Same goes for helmet laws, no talking/texting while driving, and Lord only knows what else. I'm not even sure I'm in favor of drivers licenses. Such laws are only to tax/control. The best government is one that keeps it nose out of my business.

Hold me responsible for being stupid and careless? Yes. Outlaw the behavior? No.
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Old December 20, 2011, 02:44 PM   #88
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Open or concealed matters not at all to me. I do, and have carried both ways regularly for more years than I care to remember. Have never had any issues with either way of carrying a firearm.

There are places (like banks) where discrete concealed carry would certainly be better. I tend to follow those leads.

But for general all-around carry, I couldn't care less.

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Old December 20, 2011, 03:23 PM   #89
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No offence (again) but in a way, we the people are the only business of government. And if not, there is no need of government at all. After all, it is a democracy of sorts and hardly a totalitarian government. I think maybe part of the confusion here is most people can easily think of things they don't want other people doing for any number of reasons and you can find lots of them making noises for the government to do something and the noises come from both sides of the aisle. And I suppose this applies to all levels of government right down to your homeowners' association.

So anyway, without government, just how are we to hold you responsible? Driver's licenses no doubt are to tax and control. No one disputes that. Driver's education is another story and that issue can be applied to whether or not a gun owner should have professional training or not.

But mostly I think those who openly carry are not doing so for the purpose of self-protection but rather to send some message that is not at all clear or to attempt to intimidate people generally. But I imagine some folks live in more dangerous parts of the country than I do.
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Old December 20, 2011, 04:31 PM   #90
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BT, with regard to driver's ed, the market can handle (and has handled) that problem readily enough. Insurance companies give breaks to drivers who complete driver's ed.

Of course, this doesn't help with those drivers who don't carry insurance. Odds are, though, since they are typically already breaking the law in most states, those drivers won't sweat a driver's ed requirement, either.

Any time we create a new government mandate, we then have to budget in enforcement costs, manpower, schedule time, etc.


And once again, the only people such laws will really have an effect on are the law-abiding, responsible types who probably didn't really need such a law in the first place.
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Old December 20, 2011, 04:55 PM   #91
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After all, it is a democracy
It is supposed to be a Republic, but I am afraid we have let Mr. Franklin down, and have not kept it very well.... we have invested so much power in the executive branch that though the Chief Executive is chosen democraticly, the sheer size and scope of that portion of the .gov makes it pretty unresponsive not only to the checks and balances of the other two branches, but to The People as well ...... It is in fact, an Oligarchy.
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Old December 21, 2011, 10:46 AM   #92
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Carry concealed no doubt about it. The element of surprise is never a bad thing and you don't have to deal with everyone looking at you funny for carrying a gun.

The idea that open carrying will prevent any crime/violence that might have occurred doesn't fly with me. I think you just make yourself the first target.
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Old December 21, 2011, 10:52 AM   #93
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How do you think either method would have affected the outcome of this incident being discussed in a thread on TFL right now?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472348
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Old December 21, 2011, 05:30 PM   #94
Daryl
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But mostly I think those who openly carry are not doing so for the purpose of self-protection but rather to send some message that is not at all clear or to attempt to intimidate people generally. But I imagine some folks live in more dangerous parts of the country than I do.
No offense intended, but my opinion is that you're wrong.

I started open carrying way back in the early 1980's, years before CCW was even a practical choice. Since concealing was generally illegal, we open carried.

I still carry that way at times for convenience. Has nothing whatsoever to do with intimidating anyone, since I'd have gotten over that years ago, even if it was on my mind.

Don't get me wrong; I do conceal at times, and in some places. I don't even need a permit to do so here in Az, although I've kept a valid permit since 1996.

Lots of people open carry here in Az, and I give them no more thought than I do to my own open carry preference when that's my choice.

It really isn't that big of a deal, and I'm by no means the only one who feels the way I do. I started open carrying because it was the only legal option, and I still open carry at times because it's still a legal option.

The "problem" only exists in the minds of eletists who think everyone should have a permit to exercize their constitutional rights.

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Old December 21, 2011, 11:48 PM   #95
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In my state we have both CC and OC.

The number of people I've seen OC out in the field, in town and strangely enough at the local gun club can be counted on one hand.

The number of people who've clumsily carried concealed can be counted on two. When I say clumsily carried I mean they are more than just printing, their weapons are solidly in view.

Although open carry is legal in Washington State people are still arrested under RCW 9.41.270 - Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm. Unlawful carrying or handling: It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. As you can see they don't use the term brandishing.

In effect, open carry a firearm in public which most likely will "alarm for the safety of other persons" at least one person and you'll most likely be the subject of a 9-1-1 "man with a gun" report.

There was only one time I open carried. It was by accident and completely unintended. I had been on a walk and the weather had turned warmer than expected. On the way back I took off my jacket exposing a Colt .45 in a shoulder rig. During the mile long hike back home through residential areas several cars slowed down as they passed by. When I walked into my driveway I saw a police car go by in the direction from whence I came. It wasn't until that point that I had even realized that I had my gun on display.
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Old December 22, 2011, 12:48 AM   #96
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No offense intended, but my opinion is that you're wrong.

I started open carrying way back in the early 1980's, years before CCW was even a practical choice. Since concealing was generally illegal, we open carried.

I still carry that way at times for convenience. Has nothing whatsoever to do with intimidating anyone, since I'd have gotten over that years ago, even if it was on my mind.

Don't get me wrong; I do conceal at times, and in some places. I don't even need a permit to do so here in Az, although I've kept a valid permit since 1996.

Lots of people open carry here in Az, and I give them no more thought than I do to my own open carry preference when that's my choice.

It really isn't that big of a deal, and I'm by no means the only one who feels the way I do. I started open carrying because it was the only legal option, and I still open carry at times because it's still a legal option.

The "problem" only exists in the minds of eletists who think everyone should have a permit to exercize their constitutional rights.
This is my view and my experience in a decidedly anti-gun jurisdiction (Northern Virginia). I carry as is best for the situation. I've actually had a few people ask me who/what I am, and I politely inform them. No, I'm not a cop; I'm a free Virginian. Thanks for asking. If they're genuinely curious, I'll carry on the conversation as long as they like.
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Old December 24, 2011, 07:15 AM   #97
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You cannot conceal carry unless you have a permit to do it anyway.

If you have a ccw permit-I recommend you ALWAYS conceal carry.

It's actually an advantage to you.

Open carry means everyone knows what you are carrying and how to deal with it before they start to mess with you.

Plus,I don't care what you "I'll open carry till I die "people say-on the East Coast in ANY major city,you will have big problems open carrying so your best option is to get legal to conceal carry and DO IT.

And one last note.

If it is cold enough for you to wear a jacket,and you are open carrying,and your jacket just partially covers your holstered handgun,here in Virginia-that's concealed carrying and the police can and have arrested people that did not have a conceled carry permit-even though the handgun was open carry holstered.

So -get the ccw permit and prevent alot of hassle or open carry where legal being very careful that you

-one-keep the holstered handgun in plain sight and that

-two-should you see a law officer-that you do not act in a way that seems like you are trying to conceal the fact that you are open carrying.

Like constantly turning away from the officer in a store or out in public like so he cannot see you are open carrying.

That action by you can ALSO get you arrested (In Va.) for open carrying because you are trying to conceal the fact you are open carrying from the officer.

That best thing to do is to get approved to conceal carry if you can and do that all the time.

Also remember to carry the conceled carry card in your wallet when you do-no paperwork proof can get you arrested too.

This read like alot of hassle but it is'nt really.

And being in compliance with the law before the shooting starts means that you were trying to be fully legal all the way and that means in most shootings you already are a step ahead of anyone trying to put your legal self defense actions in a bad light.
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Old December 28, 2011, 07:52 AM   #98
Daryl
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You cannot conceal carry unless you have a permit to do it anyway.
Not true. Depends on the state law(s) where you're carrying. Anyone in Az who can legally own a firearm can also legally conceal it...no permit required except in certain places because of technicalities in the laws.

Quote:
If you have a ccw permit-I recommend you ALWAYS conceal carry.
Good advice for some, but I bet I have far more experience open carrying than you do. I carry however fits the occasion, and open carry is a legal and viable option in my state. Folks here just don't pay it much, if any attention.

If a person's situational awareness is naturally low, then I'd advise concealing. In 30 years, I've yet to have a single problem, and only two people near me who ever mentioned it. One wondered what I was carrying, and the other was a slimy attorney who asked me if I was scared of something. My reply? Nope; not a thing.

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Old December 28, 2011, 10:40 PM   #99
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I live in AZ, east valley of Phoenix. Open carry & CCW are both legal here. I carry concealed unless I am out hiking in the wild.

Yes at 105 degrees it is warm, but a square cut light weight shirt from Cabela's or Bass are cool, comfortable and very concealing. I prefer not to advertise my capabilities. If I do encounter the BG, I would prefer to be a surprise. JMHO

Seems I once read that carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting, not necessarily comfortable.

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Old January 1, 2012, 09:25 AM   #100
Daryl
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Seems I once read that carrying a gun is supposed to be comforting, not necessarily comfortable.
Actually, I've found it can be both. No real reason to sweat it (pun intended) either way.

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