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Old December 18, 2011, 10:41 AM   #51
Pilot
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I only OC out in the woods, far away from people. Everywhere else it is concealed. I do not want to attract attention.
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Old December 18, 2011, 10:56 AM   #52
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don't know about CT, but in TX if you are printing at all, you are under arrest and you can kiss your CCW permit goodbye! Police officers here are pretty much "educated persons" in that regard. Good luck.
Really?
Quote:
You don't know much about TX, either.

Do you actually have a TX CHL? If you did, and your instuctor understood anything at all, you would not be posting this BS.
OP doesn't know much about TX law it seems. Accidental printing does not get you arrested and it isn't even called a 'CCW' here.

Someone needs to get a clue.
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Old December 18, 2011, 10:58 AM   #53
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Having spent most of my adult life in NJ, where no matter what anyone might say or post regarding gun rights mapping, there is NO carry unless you know the governor, etc., I had previously only carried openly, on private property and openly in the military, decades ago.

Here in TX, we have only CCW and I'm more than fine with that. First, it is a right I had denied before leaving that blue state and second, as others have posted, I don't care to advertise. I do wish open carry would pass here though so that if one were to print or accidentally show, it would not have the catastrophic effects many allude to.

I have yet to experience summer carry and that might necessitate pocket carry of a snubby. Until then it's strong side 4 o'clock IWB, FBI cant, high, with a t-shirt or covering garment. I suppose in a more populace gun friendly environment I might carry IWB in the same position, lower and with the t-shirt tucked.
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Old December 18, 2011, 12:01 PM   #54
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I've only CC'ed in Texas (the DFW area) for short periods, but I had no issues. orionengr lives in the DFW area, and he has never been harassed by LEOs over theoretical printing. I'd be curious to hear what JohnKSA has to say.

And the Texas LEOs I've met have all been pro-gun types.

Curious as to where these dire predictions come from... Austin, maybe?

Edit: Just noticed ak2323 also had comments on Texas.
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Old December 18, 2011, 01:09 PM   #55
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At this point, am a bit on Texas law.

Is it or is it not legal to OC in the State of Texas? Or does the Texas OC laws change in certain parts of the state?

Here in Ohio, it's always been legal to do so. Maybe not advisable in many areas(LE may stop and explain such laws pertaining to, but not limited to, inducing panic, etc) , but non the less, legal.
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Old December 18, 2011, 01:19 PM   #56
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At this point, am a bit on Texas law.

Is it or is it not legal to OC in the State of Texas? Or does the Texas OC laws change in certain parts of the state?
It is not legal to OC in Texas, technically. Part of the deal to get CHL passed involved revoking OC.

Are there parts of Texas where you can OC without issue? Absolutely. Don't try it in a major metropolitan area though.
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Old December 18, 2011, 03:22 PM   #57
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ak2323,

Thanks for the 'surprising' clarification
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Old December 18, 2011, 03:42 PM   #58
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Quite honestly, I would not mind to live in a society where open carry was the norm. The reason? I'd like to carry a big gun, namely my Ruger New Vaquero. When I visit my in-laws (where I'm able to shoot outdoors on private property) the first thing I do is strap on the Vaquero and I love every second of it. But alas, outside my little bubble in MD it doesn't make much sense to open carry and I'm too skinny to hide any thing but my teniee tiny J-frame.
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Old December 18, 2011, 04:27 PM   #59
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I support the legality of OC and those who choose to practice it, but it's not my cup of tea. In my state (Indiana) both CC and OC are legal so long as one has a LTCH (License To Carry a Handgun) as the law makes no distinction between the two types. That being said, OC is neither common (I've seen it a grand total of four times in the 9 1/2 years I've lived here) or particularly well-thought of by LEO's (nearly all will acknowledge that it's legal, but if asked they will tell you that they encourage CC over OC). Illinois, where carry of any type is illegal for non-LEO's, is right next door and, even though I'd be legally OK, I'd rather not have to deal with the hassle of a "man with a gun" 911 call from an ill-informed IL resident.

Also, I don't like to draw undue attention to myself and, because it's so uncommon, OC is likely to raise a few eyebrows. If I lived somewhere like Arizona where OC is relatively common and few people seem to think twice about it, I'd probably be more inclined to try it but, as circumstances are now, I'll stick with CC.

The above being said, I have absolutely no problem with people who choose to carry openly so long as they do so legally and responsibly. In many ways, I think that OC probably requires more care and forethought than CC does with regards to equipment, dress, and the manner in which you conduct yourself. I absolutely think that OC warrants a holster that has some sort of retention feature and that anything less is foolhardy. At the very least, I think a holster with a retention strap or flap is necessary and one of the security holsters commonly used by LEO's is even better.

Also, right or wrong, the way you dress and conduct yourself does indeed send a message not only about you but the rest of the gun owning community to the casual observer. If you want to OC, that's fine, but for goodness sake leave the baggy pants and hoodies or "Git 'er Done" hat and Confederate Flag t-shirt at home and wear something more respectable when you do it. Also, it is imperative that an OC'er conduct himself/herself in a polite and articulate manner. The last thing we need is to be percieved as a bunch of "gangstas in the 'hood" or "dumb rednecks" packing around our big shiny guns.

Unfortunately, there is no practical way to legislate responsibility (though that hasn't stopped many a misguided politician from trying). Inevitably, there are and will be some idiots who OC and make us look bad. I believe, however, that the idiots represent a very small minority and that the vast majority of OC'ers are responsible, upstanding people. I would much rather let a few idiots OC than I would deny the right to everyone because of the stupidity of a very small minority.
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Old December 18, 2011, 04:34 PM   #60
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I believe in constitutional carry! When the constitution says I can, why should I need a liscence? I know I probably just opened a can o' worms but I feel very strongly about it. OC or CC should be a personal preference, not a LAW.
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Old December 18, 2011, 04:37 PM   #61
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How often does your (well regulated) militia muster down your way?
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Old December 18, 2011, 05:21 PM   #62
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How often does your (well regulated) militia muster down your way?
I'm not sure exactly what your point is, but it's worth mentioning that the debate over whether the Second Amendment guaranteed a right to the militia or the people at large was settled by the Supreme Court in 2008.
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Old December 18, 2011, 06:30 PM   #63
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I've only CC'ed in Texas (the DFW area) for short periods, but I had no issues. orionengr lives in the DFW area, and he has never been harassed by LEOs over theoretical printing. I'd be curious to hear what JohnKSA has to say.
The law is unambiguous. Unintentional printing is not an offense.

I have NO idea where so many people have gotten the idea that unintentional printing can get you in trouble in TX. Not only is the law clear, I can't recall every having heard of an instance of a TX CHL holder being cited or even hassled by LE for printing.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u.../htm/PE.46.htm
Texas Penal Code
Sec. 46.035.
UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
Quote:
It is not legal to OC in Texas, technically. Part of the deal to get CHL passed involved revoking OC.

Are there parts of Texas where you can OC without issue? Absolutely. Don't try it in a major metropolitan area though.
Whoever gave you that "information" is badly misinformed.

It is absolutely illegal (not just technically illegal) to OC anywhere in TX except in very limited instances**. That has been true for well over a century as nearly as I can tell.

The CHL bill had ZERO effect on the legality (illegality, if you prefer) of OC, its only effect was to legalize CC for license holders. Prior to the CHL bill, there was no legal distinction between OC and CC in the law. The crime was carrying a handgun (an illegal weapon per the TX Penal Code) and it was illegal regardless of how the handgun was carried (openly or concealed) except in very limited instances**.

There are no places where you can legally OC in TX except on private property with the permission of the owner or in other very limited instances, namely, being engaged in **"lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or <being> en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity". (From the TX Penal Code, Sec . 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.)
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Old December 18, 2011, 07:02 PM   #64
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Whoever gave you that "information" is badly misinformed.

It is absolutely illegal (not just technically illegal) to OC anywhere in TX except in very limited instances**. That has been true for well over a century as nearly as I can tell.

The CHL bill had ZERO effect on the legality (illegality, if you prefer) of OC, its only effect was to legalize CC for license holders. Prior to the CHL bill, there was no legal distinction between OC and CC in the law. The crime was carrying a handgun (an illegal weapon per the TX Penal Code) and it was illegal regardless of how the handgun was carried (openly or concealed) except in very limited instances**.

There are no places where you can legally OC in TX except on private property with the permission of the owner or in other very limited instances, namely, being engaged in **"lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or <being> en route between the premises and the actor's residence or motor vehicle, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity". (From the TX Penal Code, Sec . 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.)
That is an excellent clarification - thank you.
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Old December 18, 2011, 08:27 PM   #65
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nope...nope... I am not gonna get suckered into another one of these threads. no no I wont.
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Old December 18, 2011, 09:09 PM   #66
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Quote:
Quote:
open carry........shoot me first.
open carry = shoot me first. There, I fixed it for you.

I also agree with you 100%. I will only ever CC even in a OC state.
Doesn't happen. The opposite happens: crime goes away or at least waits until the people open carrying go away.

That said, the prudent man plans ahead and uses a retention holster. A concealed backup gun is always a good idea.


RE: California carry ban

There is no right to keep and bear arms in California's constitution. The ban was implemented because the legislature is confident that they can get away with it. They didn't like that someone was carrying a gun despite their silly laws. California gun owners are not going to solve the problem.

Quote:
How often does your (well regulated) militia muster down your way?
In California? Never. This is why the legislature feels confident it can do anything it wants and Californians will just accept it.

Before the teeth gnashing and whining starts: go read the words of Thomas Jefferson and others. They were far more explicit about what needs to be done based upon the conditions of TODAY.

Does anyone here believe Jefferson would have sat around and allowed the people who National Defense Authorization Act to live without fear?
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Old December 18, 2011, 09:24 PM   #67
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Thanks, JohnSKa.

Was having a hard time wrapping my mind around OC'ing being legal in some parts of the state and not others. Unless there were certain counties that allowed it was the only thing I could think of.

Let it be known:

OC IS ILLEGAL IN ALL PARTS OF TEXAS.
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Old December 18, 2011, 09:28 PM   #68
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Doesn't happen. The opposite happens: crime goes away or at least waits until the people open carrying go away.
It does happen sometimes--not everyone is deterred by openly carried handguns. Sometimes (probably even MOST times) the criminal goes away and avoids the OCer. But not always.
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Old December 18, 2011, 10:07 PM   #69
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OC IS ILLEGAL IN ALL PARTS OF TEXAS.
Ever been to Texas?

The boy had a point. It's kind of like the law that bans the discharge of firearms in city limits. The governor shot a coyote whilst out jogging within Austin city limits, allegedly to protect his dog. He admitted he used a P3AT.

I love locker-room lawyers.
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Old December 18, 2011, 10:14 PM   #70
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+1 to JohnSKa post.

Google some instances where criminals have attempted to or have gotten an LEO's weapon.

If a desperate criminal is willing to jump on a cop for his/her weapon what makes you think he wouldn't jump on a non LEO citizen.

Here's a scenario to think about. You and I are standing next to each other, you are CC'ing, I'm OC'ing. A couple desperate BG's want a gun real bad, who are they going to jump on.

Saying "IT DOESN'T HAPPEN" is just not a wise assumption to make.

Last edited by shortwave; December 18, 2011 at 10:33 PM.
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Old December 18, 2011, 10:28 PM   #71
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ak2323,

I wasn't trying to be a locker room lawyer. I didn't know about the law in Texas and from reading this thread it wasn't clear to me until JohnSKa post as to whether it was legal in some parts and not in others.

My 'LET IT BE KNOWN' comment was just in good humor.
Yes, I have been to Texas a time or ten.

Also:
Was the governor OC'ing or CC'ing his P3AT?

Too, does the Austin city limit ban the use of weapons for SD purposes for your dog against yotes?

Last edited by shortwave; December 18, 2011 at 10:39 PM.
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Old December 18, 2011, 11:17 PM   #72
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does the Austin city limit ban the use of weapons for SD purposes for your dog against yotes?
I should quote statute but I won't for now. SD is strictly defined in TX and, please correct me if I wrong, it doesn't cover shooting coyotes in city limits unless you can make the case that you were in fear for your own or another human life...

IMHO the fact this never got to a grand jury was...unusual.
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Old December 18, 2011, 11:26 PM   #73
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...please correct me if I'm wrong...
Someone else will have to do that, I don't know how the statute is worded or the intimate details of the Austin governor coyote shooting incident.
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Old December 19, 2011, 12:20 AM   #74
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It's kind of like the law that bans the discharge of firearms in city limits. The governor shot a coyote whilst out jogging within Austin city limits, allegedly to protect his dog. He admitted he used a P3AT.
Even if we were to accept this statement as accurate for the sake of argument, it would only prove that there are variances in enforcement of the law--something that might reasonably be expected over an area as large and diverse as TX. It doesn't prove anything about the legality of Perry's actions or of the legality of OC in TX.

OC is clearly against the law everywhere in TX. Are there TX LEOs who might look the other way? It's likely. Might that attitude be more prevalent in some areas? Quite possibly. But if one were cited, one would have no way to claim justification or exemption unless the limited circumstances I listed earlier applied.

For what it's worth, TX state law doesn't cover discharge of firearms in city limits, that's an issue addressed by municipal or county ordinances. State law does provide an exemption for discharging a firearm "in a public place" when there's a reasonable concern about an attack by "dangerous wild animals", a definition which includes coyotes.

Given that TX state law provides the exemption, it would not be legal, in my opinion, for a county or municipal ordinance to criminalize such an action due to the state preemption law applying to firearms.
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Old December 19, 2011, 12:24 AM   #75
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I lived in Alaskafor about 13 years and up there it didn't really matter how you carry. They tried passing laws about this at one time,but it didn't last too long. I don't know for sure if there are laws concerning open or concealed carry now, but if there are, they are just ignored by all.
We've had constitutional CC since 2004. Open carry has always been legal.

Bars, courthouses, womens shelters, secondary school grounds are off limits (need to fix that one), persons carrying concealed have a duty to inform upon official contact by LE.

I only open carry when I'm engaged in some sort of outdoor activity. Otherwise I carry concealed and even when open carrying chances are I still have an anti-personnel device hidden on me IWB.
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