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Old April 23, 2014, 06:29 AM   #1
Magnum Wheel Man
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an interesting test with my CCW...

yesterday, I happened to be carrying my Taurus TCP .380 ( I have 4-5 different guns that work the "rotation" )

MRS hasn't been feeling well lately, leaving me to do chores when I get home from work ( we have just a couple pigs, hens, the outside dog, & some farm cats )

I had just finished picking eggs ( MRS always gives me grief for not putting them in a basket, & just carrying them up to the house in my hands ) in my defense, if there are only 3-4 I carry them, if more, I use the basket...

as I was leaving the chicken house, with my left hand holding 3 eggs, outside dogie was barking up a storm, the "hey poppa I got a wild animal trapped over here" bark ( he's great at treeing coons, chasing rabbits, etc. ) so I divert my path from the chicken house over to the windbreak... where I find dogie digging frantically on a small tire pile I have as a 4 wheeler obstacle on the trail through the windbreak... I'm assuming it's a rabbit, which if that's the case I usually leave it alone, but peeking out of a couple tires deep, is a very large coon... so, with eggs still in hand, I pull a couple tires off, allowing better access to the coon, draw my .380 ( I prefer to use my 17 Mach 2 rifle, but the .380 is what I had ) I have to rack the slide ( I don't carry with one in the chamber ) pull the dog back a bit off the coon, & shoot the darned thing, before the dog jumps back on it ( again, all the while holding 3 raw eggs in one hand )

yes I was able to accomplish this... so I learned a couple things... I could easily cycle a round, & fire the TCP, if one hand were wounded... the lil gun was way past time for a detail cleaning ( I carry in a belt holster, but it's amazing how much lint can accumulate in a short time ) the gun functioned perfectly for a double tap into the coon...

BTW... was using Speer Gold Dot factory rounds, & they had no trouble effectively killing the coon ( you may be surprised how tough they can be to kill some larger varmints quickly with a handgun, especially after being all worked up, battling the dog )

I don't think I could have chambered a round in my 10 mm, without putting the eggs down, & might have had a more difficult time with my compact 9

sometime try chambering a round in your favorite CCW with 3 raw eggs in one of your hands
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Old April 23, 2014, 01:02 PM   #2
armoredman
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I think I'll skip the egg test - I carry Condition 2 mostly, loaded chamber, hammer decocked. Good shooting.
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Old April 23, 2014, 02:31 PM   #3
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I hear and read the statement about not carrying a round chambered a lot.
I am not wanting to start a fight here, and I personally don't care if someone doesn't carry one in the chamber, or carry a gun at all. But I do have to ask;
Why not?

If a semi-auto can't be trusted to be safe with one in the chamber I would not want to even own it.
Most revolvers are carried fully loaded (unless we are talking about some of the models of the late 1800s)
Rifles are carried that way.
Shotguns are carried that way.

I do understand that fact that if you accidently pull the trigger an auto may fire. So will a revolver, a rifle or a shot gun.
If it would not------ it's broken.
Safe gun handeling demands we don't put our finger on the trigger until the sights are on the target. So if we don't pull the trigger we have no worries....right?

So I am just curious as to the reasoning.

As a gunsmith I can tell you I understand the inner working of most guns as well or better than most shooters and if the design and model is a good one I can't see any logical reason to not load the chamber for carry, but maybe there is a reason I am unaware of.

Enlighten me please.
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Old April 23, 2014, 02:37 PM   #4
Magnum Wheel Man
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this gun doesn't have a safety, I'm like most CCW carriers, I carry often, & hope to never have to shoot... I'm sure accidental discharges are 1000 times more likely, with a round in the chamber... ( & I obviously don't worry about this on my revolvers ) this is a compact little gun, what if it fell from my holster & I didn't know it ( like rollerblading, for example, which I once lost my cell phone ) BTW... I'm not a very good rollerblader... been know to fall ( stupid old guy took up rollerblading for the 1st time when I turned 50 )... nothing is totally "fool proof" my cell phone was in a purchased strapped nylon belt holster, & it popped open... if the gun got picked up by a kid who figured it was a toy, since it's so small, it's much safer in the condition I carry it... the TCP has the lightest trigger pull of any of the 380's I tested before buying one, easily pulled by a child... by carrying this way, I pretty much eliminate any chance of an accidental discharge, by myself, or anyone else...

I practice drawing & racking the slide in one fluid motion ( although this was the 1st time I tried it with 3 raw eggs in one hand, & while I couldn't do it in one motion, it was still surprisingly fast, even with the eggs
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Old April 23, 2014, 11:08 PM   #5
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thats the first time I have ever heard that explanation. pretty good point
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Old April 24, 2014, 12:06 AM   #6
colbad
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Drawing, racking round while rolling along on roller blades..... WOW! Do you also practice shooting from roller blades?
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Old April 24, 2014, 06:15 AM   #7
Magnum Wheel Man
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Quote:
Drawing, racking round while rolling along on roller blades..... WOW! Do you also practice shooting from roller blades?
I'm sorry if you got the impression that practice drawing & racking while on rollerblades... I'm honestly not good enough to do that... if I had to use my gun while on rollerblades, I think I'd go to the ground, taking cover ( behind a tree, or ??? ) & shoot from a kneeling position

nope... never tried to shoot while on skates... I could pretty much bet I'd be on my back in a fraction of a second...

BTW... it's not like I rollerblade my life away, I live on MRS. family century farm, I'm always rebuilding something, carrying heavy items, stuff where the gun gets sweaty, banged against stuff, ripped from it's holster on occasion... this is why I bought the TCP in the 1st place... if I'm not doing very physical & abusive work, I have any number of guns I can carry ( & I usually prefer a revolver ) but the TCP is pretty resistant to sweat, small & thin, & most of all cheap, yet reliable... if I broke one of my antique revolvers ( which I'm also partial to carrying ) I'd feel bad... the TCP was cheap, & can be easily replaced... I feel that maybe 40% of the time I carry that gun I'm doing something physical enough, that it could get ripped from the holster... in that case, having an empty chamber I feel is much safer, since tactikooly you want to develop muscle memory, I always carry it that way, & rack the slide as I draw...

for those that feel the gun is worthless without a cartridge in the chamber, I suppose you leave your gun in the car, when you attend a gun show??? not me, the little plastic tie they put on the gun, is easily broken, & a full magazine is in my pocket... & you know what... I know how to rack the slide
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Old April 28, 2014, 12:53 PM   #8
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Just out of curiosity, how did you rack the slide with one hand? Did you hook the rear sight on your belt or something? Or is there a different one-handed technique I'm not aware of?
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Old April 28, 2014, 01:23 PM   #9
Magnum Wheel Man
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the TCP doesn't have much of a rear right, very slightly raised, & at such a steep angle to keep it from snagging on anything... it also doesn't have a real strong slide spring... I still used my off hand, I was able to grasp it with my thumb & ring finger with 3 eggs in my hand... without dropping or crushing an egg... I think I could use just my palm sideways using friction on the slide serrations, but admit I didn't try... I doubt I could do the same with either my Compact CZ-75, or my full sized Witness 10mm
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Old April 28, 2014, 03:40 PM   #10
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While I wouldn't do it the way you do it, your way obviously works.


And having killed two sick racoons (one was 2x.380, the other 2x9MM) I agree; they're tough little critters.

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Old April 28, 2014, 06:33 PM   #11
armoredman
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The only CZ pistol that was ever designed for one hand slide racking was the late and unlamented CZ-100. It had a raised portion halfway down the slide for exactly that, another aspect of the incredibly weird design that it was.
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Old August 11, 2014, 08:02 AM   #12
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Unless I am expecting trouble I usually carry chamber empty because all I have to do is drop the mag to make safe for transport. Sometimes I have to transition several times a day.
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Old August 11, 2014, 09:24 AM   #13
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Many training organizations teach one handed slide operation and loading.
It can be a very good thing to know how to do.
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Old August 11, 2014, 01:26 PM   #14
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hvymax
Unless I am expecting trouble I usually carry chamber empty because all I have to do is drop the mag to make safe for transport. Sometimes I have to transition several times a day.
Wait, are you saying that you don't check the chamber when you unload the mag? That's what it sounds like to me; because if you did check the chamber then it would be just as fast to unload with a round in the chamber than without.

And when you say "expecting trouble", what exactly do you mean? The whole point of carrying a gun is to be prepared to defend yourself at any time. You don't get to pick the time or place.

Your method seems like a terrible idea to me. First, it's extremely unsafe to assume a gun is unloaded just by dropping the mag. And second, it's a very bad idea to carry one way sometimes and another way at other times. If you don't carry the same way every time, you're introducing a needlessly complex manual of arms that can really mess you up under stress. I think it's generally a bad idea to carry without a round in the chamber, but if you're going to do it, do it all the time.
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Old August 11, 2014, 01:45 PM   #15
hvymax
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I hung with Israelis in the 80's so racking on the draw is no big deal. When making safe I try to be as discrete as possible so dropping the mag in the armrest as I slip the pistol into the safe is quick and easy. Kind of like how 80% of the time I take the LCP in a pocket holster for sheer convenience. I know some who revolve their lives around their carry pieces but that is just too much like work when I have convenient options. Also loading and unloading can cause bullets to drive back into the case risking pressure and feed issues. I am 90+% sure that I am as likely to do as well loading on the draw in any situation I would find myself in.
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Old August 11, 2014, 02:14 PM   #16
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That's fine, but my point was that dropping the mag without checking the chamber can be a recipe for disaster; just dropping the mag isn't "making safe". Also, you said you sometimes do carry with a round in the chamber, which means you have two different ways to draw your firearm, and you have to be able to remember if there's a round in the chamber as you're drawing your firearm in an extremely stressful self-defense situation. And because you do sometimes carry with a round in the chamber, it makes your technique of dropping the mag without checking the chamber even more potentially dangerous.

As for the bullet setback issue, it takes multiple chamberings to cause bullet setback in most premium self-defense loads, and even then it's easy to see that it's happened and to get rid of the round. But an easy way to avoid that is to just leave your carry gun chambered always: I never un-chamber my carry gun; if I need to remove it I just remove the entire holster. As long as the gun is in a holster it remains chambered.

As much as I think it's a bad idea to carry without a round in the chamber, that's not what I'm criticizing here. What I'm criticizing is you not checking the chamber when you unload your firearm, and also the fact that you're not consistent in your carry method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvymax
I know some who revolve their lives around their carry pieces but that is just too much like work when I have convenient options.
Constantly removing the magazine and storing your carry gun sounds like a lot of work to me. I just keep my carry gun loaded, chambered, and holstered 24/7. At night it stays in the holster even though the holster isn't on my body. That greatly simplifies things for me; I never need to think about where my gun is or what condition of readiness it's in. It's just always on me and always ready, and it frees me up to worry about other things.
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Old August 11, 2014, 03:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
[F]or those that feel the gun is worthless without a cartridge in the chamber, I suppose you leave your gun in the car, when you attend a gun show???
I wasn't going to say much else, but that is the worst red herring I've ever seen, amigo. Gun shows happen rarely, and I actually do not attend. I also don't shop at places where I cannot legally carry my sidearm. This being Arizona, that list is actually pretty short.
Yes, my expensive sidearm and holster are less than completely useful if carried chamber empty. I can THREATEN with it easily enough, but if one hand is busy/injured I'd best hope nobody calls my bluff. Do remember this latest SD shooting to make the news, the 14 year old and the 43 year old - the thug came up on the gentleman who was sitting on his front porch, Thug opened fire, striking the gentleman in his upper extremities. One of several stories linked.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/08/vi...arrying-a-gun/

Read that again - struck in the upper extremities. For laymen, that is arms or hands. Your system does not work if either arm or hand is out of action. Real world results right there. Now, to be completely fair, the articles I have read did NOT say the wounds put an arm or hand out of action, but it does say he was able to draw and fire, ending the threat. I am willing to bet a six pack his weapon was hot, i.e., chamber loaded. If you can prove otherwise, tell me where to send the money for a six pack of your favorite frosty beverage.
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Old August 11, 2014, 06:22 PM   #18
hvymax
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Sadly I live in Maryland where my permit is no good but I can carry just across the bridge in Va where I spend my time. So several times a day I have to return to FOPA legal. I almost may as well live in Jersey. Maybe after the wife retires we can move to America.
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