Molon labe II

dZ · November 20, 2000, 06:54 PM

In 480 B.C the forces of the Persian Empire under King Xerxes,
numbering according the Herodotus two million men, bridged the Hellespont
and marching in their myriads to invade and enslave Greece.

In a desperate delaying action, a picked force of three hundred Spartans
was dispatched to hold the pass of Thermopylae, where the confines
between mountains and sea were so narrow that the Persian multitudes
and their cavalry would at least be partially neutralized.

Here, it was hoped, an elite force willing to sacrifice their lives could keep back,
at least for a few days, the invading millions. Three hundred Spartans and their allies held
off the invaders for seven days, until, their weapons smashed and broken before the
slaughter, they fought with bare hands and teeth (as recorded by Herodotus) before at last
being overwhelmed.

The Spartans and their Thespian allies died to the last man, but the standard of valor set by
their sacrifice inspired the Greeks to rally and, in that fall and spring, defeat the Persians at
Salamis and Plataea and preserve the beginnings of Western democracy and freedom from
perishing in the cradle.

Two memorials remain today at Thermoplae. Upon the modern one, called the Leonidas
monument in honor of the Spartan king who fell there, is engraved his response to Xerxes
demand that the Spartans lay down their weapons.

Leonidas reply was two words, Molon labe. Come and get them

The second monument, the ancient one, is an unadorned stone engraved with the words of
the poet Simonides. Its verses comprise perhaps the most famous of all warrior epitaphs:

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, That here obedient to their laws we lie.

------Steven Pressfield, Gates of Fire

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...404773-7648758

Gates of Fire : An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae
by Steven Pressfield

List Price: $6.50
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a good history website covering
The battle of Thermopylae, 480 BC

http://monolith.student.utwente.nl/~...le/thermo.html

KenPaul · November 20, 2000, 07:53 PM

Gotta love it!

Molon Labe!

Hard Ball · November 20, 2000, 07:58 PM

The Spartans did not carry flags but I believe they would have loved the one you show.

beemerb · November 20, 2000, 08:35 PM

That flag would make an excellent patch or decal.ANy ideas anyone?

BigG · November 20, 2000, 08:47 PM

How unpolitically correct can you get? Got to love you DZ!!

**4V50 Gary** · November 21, 2000, 02:25 AM

No, no, no! It was only 298 Spartiates who perished with Leonidas. Two left before the final fight. We don't know the exact number of slaves (helots) who died with them either.

dZ · November 21, 2000, 01:01 PM

The Persian-Greco war in 1000 words or less

Frank Miller's latest adventure series is a riveting
story of one of the most under-reported and
glorious battles of the Persian-Greco war. While Miller has taken
substantial creative liberties in reporting the details of his version of
the Spartan King Leonidas and his army of 300 valiant soldiers, the
events he describes are remarkably accurate.

"There's a scene where the Persian ambassador asks for a token gift
of land and water, and a Spartan leads him to a well, and shoves him
in, to his death. Like so much that is in this book, that actually came
from reality," Miller attests, laughing. "I mean, I moved it around. I take
all the liberties any fiction maker does, but the Spartans actually did
treat tyrants that way."

Most comics readers, being literate and generally interested in
adventurous stuff, probably have some background in Greek history,
and might even know something about the Persian invasion of
Greece. Still, not much is known on a general level about the specific
battle depicted in 300, so we thought it might be a good idea to
provide a simplified timeline of sorts for readers who are interested in
learning more about the history behind what Miller calls "the best
damn story I've ever gotten my hands on."

An early history of the rise of Persia and its great King Xerxes reveals a
relatively rapid growth of the Persian empire. The empire was founded
around 550 B.C. by Cyrus the Elder, who in a very short time managed
to incorporate Babylon, Syria, Phoenicia, and every other land adjacent
to Persia into the growing nation. Within twenty years, Cambyses, who
succeeded Cyrus in Persia's rule, incorporated Egypt into the empire,
and with another twenty years, then-Persian leader Darius established
a firm bridge-head into Greece by conquering and claiming both
Scythia and Thrace. By the time the great Xerxes took reign of Persia,
some sixty-five years after its founding by Cyrus, Greece had already
defeated the expanding empire during one attempted invasion, and
was steeling itself against any further attacks. And further attacks were
a guaranteed prospect, given the Persian army's unprecedented
numbers.

Despite the strength of the individual Greek societies at this time,
there was not yet any notion of there being a Greek nation. Athens was
inarguably the most sophisticated of the city-states, but Sparta, with its
almost primal customs and infused warrior mentality acted as a great
potential threat against the advancing Persians. In the face of the
imminent Persian invasion, a makeshift alliance grew between the
Greek states, loosely uniting the strong Athenian navy, the vicious
Spartans, who knew the intimidating Greek terrain better than anyone
else, and various factions from smaller cities.

Still, problems arose between the more academic and civilized
Athenians and their Spartan counterparts. Since Athens had by far
contributed the most troops to the confrontation, Athenians
understandably wanted their leader Themosticles named
commander-in-chief. Sparta, on the other hand, claimed superior
knowledge of battle and warfare, therefore its preferred leader was the
Spartan Eurybiades. An informal resolution named Eurybiades
admiral, despite the widely recognized fact that Themosticles made
most of the pertinent decisions.

When Xerxes initiated the Persian offense from Susa in 481 (BC), he
sent forth messengers with demands for submission from all the
Greek states, including Sparta, and his messengers were met with
resounding refusals to comply. By the spring of 480, smallish advance
forces were being deployed by numerous Greek states, including
Sparta, in efforts to thwart the imminent invasion of the Persian army.

In mid-August of the same year, at a time when most Greek city-states
were withdrawing from their holding positions for religious observation
of the Carneia and for Olympic competitions, a small force of 300
Spartans, led by King Leonidas, marched north to Thermopylae to
fortify that important pass. This force was reinforced by factions from
neighboring cities, but the total number of Greeks involved never
topped seven thousand.

While the Persian navy was suffering formidable losses at sea due to
a terrible storm and the subsequent attack of the Athenian navy,
Xerxes ordered his land troops forward to attack the Spartan's defense
of the Hot Gates at Thermopylae. For the first two days of the battle at
Thermopylae, the Persians were badly defeated by the steadfast
Spartan-led troops, but on the third day, Xerxes' imperial guard found
access to a previously undiscovered pass (revealed to them by a
turn-coat Greek) that allowed them to outflank Leonidas' guard. Xerxes
ordered yet another frontal attack -- of the same caliber that had been
defeated the previous two days -- but this time, he also commanded a
second attack from the rear mountain pass. Leonidas and his
Spartans were defeated after two glorious days of battle, and Xerxes'
troops eventually advanced into Southern Greece, despite the heavy
losses dealt by the 300 Spartans.

The following year was tumultuous for the allied Greek states, as the
invaders took Attica, and the Acropolis at Athens fell to Persian troops.
Nevertheless, Greece managed to prevail over the tiring Persians in
key battles, and by late 479, a fortified alliance between the remaining
Spartan forces and Athens proved formidable enough to reclaim the
lost Greek territories and defeat Persia.

Revisit this most remarkable and under-reported battle of the Persian
invasion of Greece with Frank Miller's latest Dark Horse series, 300

http://www.darkhorse.com/news/featur...55a/index.html

i just ordered a copy from Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...404773-7648758
along with a copy of
Gates of Fire
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...404773-7648758

dZ · November 21, 2000, 06:49 PM

http://monolith.student.utwente.nl/~...le/thermo.html

Xerxes ordered his corps d'elite, the 10000 Immortals, to
attack the Greek stronghold. This elite unite was called the
Immortals as before a battle people were assigned to
immediately take in the place of a fallen person. This way
the strength of the unit was always the same. Leonidas'
men held out magnificently for two days against the best
that Xerxes could sent at them, and they would have
probably continued this for several more days if a traitor
would not have shown the Persians an ill-guarded mountain
track. The 1000 men who had to guard this path could not
stop the sudden attack and were forced to retreat higher
into the mountains. The Immortals could now move round
on Leonidas' rear. When he heard of this he sent
everybody home except his famed 300 Spartans and the
men from Thespiae. The Thebans also stayed, but not
because they wanted too: they were an insurance that
Thebes would not collaborate to the Persians. All but the
Thebans, who did surrender, fought and died. It was almost
a victory.

dZ · January 10, 2001, 11:36 PM

BTT

Ironbarr · January 11, 2001, 12:45 AM

Great stories here. Thanks for the read.

DZ - Do I ask - or do I just SxxxL the darn thing

? Or is it copyrighted or something? Molan Labe, that is.

-Andy

dZ · January 11, 2001, 04:52 PM

well i consider my artwork copyrighted, but if you want a copy to enjoy, go ahead & grab it

if you want to make a million dollars selling something i created then i want a piece of that action

As far as the phrase "Molan Labe" i think Leonidas holds the copy right on that

dZ

Robert Teesdale · January 12, 2001, 12:37 PM

DZ:

I'd also like permission to use the logo for reprints - not on merchandise, but as a graphic accompanying articles about the HCI lawsuit.

If this is acceptable, please e-mail me at:

robert@teesdale.com

Thank you!

Best regards,

Robert Teesdale
robert@teesdale.com
http://www.teesdale.com

dZ · January 12, 2001, 02:58 PM

TRT gets all my work for free!

let me know what format works best

dZ

Steve B · January 12, 2001, 06:51 PM

How would you feel about your graphics being used as a tattoo...???

dZ · January 13, 2001, 12:51 AM

go for it!

i will need a photo for my portfolio

dZ

Lance · January 13, 2001, 08:14 AM

Quote:
"If A traitor would not have shown the Persians an ill-guarded mountain track."

One has to wonder if the modern day comtemporary to the Tratior is HCI, MMM???
Lance

Jhp147 · January 13, 2001, 08:50 AM

I really like that logo! Gotta have it on something. Can you maybe send it to Correia, and see if he can do shirts with THAT somewhere on it? If not, can I get a copy E-mailed, I might want to do something like that with it, if we can work a deal on royalties or whatever you call it.

Jim V · January 13, 2001, 07:43 PM

I saw some iron-on t-shirt decals that are printed on your ink jet printer. If the entire art work is too alrge or expensive for the "official" shirts, you could go that route and print the flag on one of those iron ons.

Longshot · January 13, 2001, 09:46 PM

Does anyone know how to make bumper stickers? Is there a way to do it with common home-PC equipment? Primarily, I'm concerned about them being waterproof.

dZ · January 13, 2001, 09:49 PM

there is ink jet bumpersticker stock

i think a spray fixative would keep it waterproof

dZ

Lance Gothic · January 14, 2001, 01:42 AM

Brethren,
Regarding the patch/flag/decal I know someone in the business and will contact them ASAP for a quantity quote.
Regards,
Lance Gothic
Shibumi

Satanta · January 14, 2001, 02:04 AM

definatly a patch. would go nice with my other patriot f;ags yjay i fly on my scooter leathers.

Byron Quick · January 16, 2001, 11:41 PM

Almost a victor? It depends on the breadth of your vision. Thermopylae is a tactical defeat-no question. A great battle, no doubt but still a defeat. But a battle is not the whole story-rather the entire story is that of the campaign. A couple of months after Thermopylae, the Persian army encountered the full force of the Greeks. Where they faced 300 Spartans with the red shields bearing a "lambda" with several thousand ancillary troops, at Plataea the Persian faced 4000 red faced lambda shields with 20,000 ancillary troops. The Persians ran at Plataea. They could not bear to face twelve times the number of Spartans they faced at Thermopylae. Thermopylae-tactical defeat-strategic victory.

gdw · January 17, 2001, 11:27 AM

Quote:

One has to wonder if the modern day comtemporary to the Tratior is HCI, MMM???
Lance

I think they are the "Persians" in this analogy, a traitor is one who stands with us, than backs out -
Hello Smith & Wesson
Hello Bill Ruger

It is far better to know who/where your enemies are rather than have them sneak up on you...
"et tu Brutus?"

powderific · January 18, 2001, 09:59 PM

Um, i hate to sound stupid, but could someone please tell me how you pronounce "Molon Labe"?

November 20, 2000, 08:47 PM	#5
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,260	How unpolitically correct can you get? Got to love you DZ!! __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

November 21, 2000, 01:01 PM	#7
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	DarkHorse Comics: Frank MIller's 300 The Persian-Greco war in 1000 words or less Frank Miller's latest adventure series is a riveting story of one of the most under-reported and glorious battles of the Persian-Greco war. While Miller has taken substantial creative liberties in reporting the details of his version of the Spartan King Leonidas and his army of 300 valiant soldiers, the events he describes are remarkably accurate. "There's a scene where the Persian ambassador asks for a token gift of land and water, and a Spartan leads him to a well, and shoves him in, to his death. Like so much that is in this book, that actually came from reality," Miller attests, laughing. "I mean, I moved it around. I take all the liberties any fiction maker does, but the Spartans actually did treat tyrants that way." Most comics readers, being literate and generally interested in adventurous stuff, probably have some background in Greek history, and might even know something about the Persian invasion of Greece. Still, not much is known on a general level about the specific battle depicted in 300, so we thought it might be a good idea to provide a simplified timeline of sorts for readers who are interested in learning more about the history behind what Miller calls "the best damn story I've ever gotten my hands on." An early history of the rise of Persia and its great King Xerxes reveals a relatively rapid growth of the Persian empire. The empire was founded around 550 B.C. by Cyrus the Elder, who in a very short time managed to incorporate Babylon, Syria, Phoenicia, and every other land adjacent to Persia into the growing nation. Within twenty years, Cambyses, who succeeded Cyrus in Persia's rule, incorporated Egypt into the empire, and with another twenty years, then-Persian leader Darius established a firm bridge-head into Greece by conquering and claiming both Scythia and Thrace. By the time the great Xerxes took reign of Persia, some sixty-five years after its founding by Cyrus, Greece had already defeated the expanding empire during one attempted invasion, and was steeling itself against any further attacks. And further attacks were a guaranteed prospect, given the Persian army's unprecedented numbers. Despite the strength of the individual Greek societies at this time, there was not yet any notion of there being a Greek nation. Athens was inarguably the most sophisticated of the city-states, but Sparta, with its almost primal customs and infused warrior mentality acted as a great potential threat against the advancing Persians. In the face of the imminent Persian invasion, a makeshift alliance grew between the Greek states, loosely uniting the strong Athenian navy, the vicious Spartans, who knew the intimidating Greek terrain better than anyone else, and various factions from smaller cities. Still, problems arose between the more academic and civilized Athenians and their Spartan counterparts. Since Athens had by far contributed the most troops to the confrontation, Athenians understandably wanted their leader Themosticles named commander-in-chief. Sparta, on the other hand, claimed superior knowledge of battle and warfare, therefore its preferred leader was the Spartan Eurybiades. An informal resolution named Eurybiades admiral, despite the widely recognized fact that Themosticles made most of the pertinent decisions. When Xerxes initiated the Persian offense from Susa in 481 (BC), he sent forth messengers with demands for submission from all the Greek states, including Sparta, and his messengers were met with resounding refusals to comply. By the spring of 480, smallish advance forces were being deployed by numerous Greek states, including Sparta, in efforts to thwart the imminent invasion of the Persian army. In mid-August of the same year, at a time when most Greek city-states were withdrawing from their holding positions for religious observation of the Carneia and for Olympic competitions, a small force of 300 Spartans, led by King Leonidas, marched north to Thermopylae to fortify that important pass. This force was reinforced by factions from neighboring cities, but the total number of Greeks involved never topped seven thousand. While the Persian navy was suffering formidable losses at sea due to a terrible storm and the subsequent attack of the Athenian navy, Xerxes ordered his land troops forward to attack the Spartan's defense of the Hot Gates at Thermopylae. For the first two days of the battle at Thermopylae, the Persians were badly defeated by the steadfast Spartan-led troops, but on the third day, Xerxes' imperial guard found access to a previously undiscovered pass (revealed to them by a turn-coat Greek) that allowed them to outflank Leonidas' guard. Xerxes ordered yet another frontal attack -- of the same caliber that had been defeated the previous two days -- but this time, he also commanded a second attack from the rear mountain pass. Leonidas and his Spartans were defeated after two glorious days of battle, and Xerxes' troops eventually advanced into Southern Greece, despite the heavy losses dealt by the 300 Spartans. The following year was tumultuous for the allied Greek states, as the invaders took Attica, and the Acropolis at Athens fell to Persian troops. Nevertheless, Greece managed to prevail over the tiring Persians in key battles, and by late 479, a fortified alliance between the remaining Spartan forces and Athens proved formidable enough to reclaim the lost Greek territories and defeat Persia. Revisit this most remarkable and under-reported battle of the Persian invasion of Greece with Frank Miller's latest Dark Horse series, 300 http://www.darkhorse.com/news/featur...55a/index.html i just ordered a copy from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...404773-7648758 along with a copy of Gates of Fire http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...404773-7648758

January 11, 2001, 12:45 AM	#10
Ironbarr Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2000 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 1,188	Great stories here. Thanks for the read. DZ - Do I ask - or do I just SxxxL the darn thing? Or is it copyrighted or something? Molan Labe, that is. -Andy

January 12, 2001, 12:37 PM	#12
Robert Teesdale Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2000 Location: Boulder, CO USA Posts: 168	Request to use logo DZ: I'd also like permission to use the logo for reprints - not on merchandise, but as a graphic accompanying articles about the HCI lawsuit. If this is acceptable, please e-mail me at: robert@teesdale.com Thank you! Best regards, Robert Teesdale robert@teesdale.com http://www.teesdale.com

January 13, 2001, 08:14 AM	#16
Lance Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Jackson, Michigan Posts: 77	The Traitor Quote: "If A traitor would not have shown the Persians an ill-guarded mountain track." One has to wonder if the modern day comtemporary to the Tratior is HCI, MMM??? Lance

November 20, 2000, 06:54 PM	#1
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	In 480 B.C the forces of the Persian Empire under King Xerxes, numbering according the Herodotus two million men, bridged the Hellespont and marching in their myriads to invade and enslave Greece. In a desperate delaying action, a picked force of three hundred Spartans was dispatched to hold the pass of Thermopylae, where the confines between mountains and sea were so narrow that the Persian multitudes and their cavalry would at least be partially neutralized. Here, it was hoped, an elite force willing to sacrifice their lives could keep back, at least for a few days, the invading millions. Three hundred Spartans and their allies held off the invaders for seven days, until, their weapons smashed and broken before the slaughter, they fought with bare hands and teeth (as recorded by Herodotus) before at last being overwhelmed. The Spartans and their Thespian allies died to the last man, but the standard of valor set by their sacrifice inspired the Greeks to rally and, in that fall and spring, defeat the Persians at Salamis and Plataea and preserve the beginnings of Western democracy and freedom from perishing in the cradle. Two memorials remain today at Thermoplae. Upon the modern one, called the Leonidas monument in honor of the Spartan king who fell there, is engraved his response to Xerxes demand that the Spartans lay down their weapons. Leonidas reply was two words, Molon labe. Come and get them The second monument, the ancient one, is an unadorned stone engraved with the words of the poet Simonides. Its verses comprise perhaps the most famous of all warrior epitaphs: Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, That here obedient to their laws we lie. ------Steven Pressfield, Gates of Fire http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...404773-7648758 Gates of Fire : An Epic Novel of the Battle of Thermopylae by Steven Pressfield List Price: $6.50 >>>>>>>>>>>>> a good history website covering The battle of Thermopylae, 480 BC http://monolith.student.utwente.nl/~...le/thermo.html

November 20, 2000, 07:53 PM	#2
KenPaul Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 204	Gotta love it! Molon Labe!

November 20, 2000, 07:58 PM	#3
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,928	The Spartans did not carry flags but I believe they would have loved the one you show.

November 20, 2000, 08:35 PM	#4
beemerb Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Location: AZ Posts: 1,759	That flag would make an excellent patch or decal.ANy ideas anyone?

November 21, 2000, 02:25 AM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 15,424	No, no, no! It was only 298 Spartiates who perished with Leonidas. Two left before the final fight. We don't know the exact number of slaves (helots) who died with them either.

November 21, 2000, 06:49 PM	#8
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	http://monolith.student.utwente.nl/~...le/thermo.html Xerxes ordered his corps d'elite, the 10000 Immortals, to attack the Greek stronghold. This elite unite was called the Immortals as before a battle people were assigned to immediately take in the place of a fallen person. This way the strength of the unit was always the same. Leonidas' men held out magnificently for two days against the best that Xerxes could sent at them, and they would have probably continued this for several more days if a traitor would not have shown the Persians an ill-guarded mountain track. The 1000 men who had to guard this path could not stop the sudden attack and were forced to retreat higher into the mountains. The Immortals could now move round on Leonidas' rear. When he heard of this he sent everybody home except his famed 300 Spartans and the men from Thespiae. The Thebans also stayed, but not because they wanted too: they were an insurance that Thebes would not collaborate to the Persians. All but the Thebans, who did surrender, fought and died. It was almost a victory.

January 10, 2001, 11:36 PM	#9
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	BTT

January 11, 2001, 04:52 PM	#11
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	well i consider my artwork copyrighted, but if you want a copy to enjoy, go ahead & grab it if you want to make a million dollars selling something i created then i want a piece of that action As far as the phrase "Molan Labe" i think Leonidas holds the copy right on that dZ

January 12, 2001, 02:58 PM	#13
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	TRT gets all my work for free! let me know what format works best dZ

January 12, 2001, 06:51 PM	#14
Steve B Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2000 Location: Maynard, MA Posts: 106	How would you feel about your graphics being used as a tattoo...???

January 13, 2001, 12:51 AM	#15
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	go for it! i will need a photo for my portfolio dZ

January 13, 2001, 08:50 AM	#17
Jhp147 Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 597	Hey dZ ,your helmet/CAR logo is great.... I really like that logo! Gotta have it on something. Can you maybe send it to Correia, and see if he can do shirts with THAT somewhere on it? If not, can I get a copy E-mailed, I might want to do something like that with it, if we can work a deal on royalties or whatever you call it. __________________ Sometimes...days are just something you get through.

January 13, 2001, 07:43 PM	#18
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,039	While I was buying some photo quality paper........... I saw some iron-on t-shirt decals that are printed on your ink jet printer. If the entire art work is too alrge or expensive for the "official" shirts, you could go that route and print the flag on one of those iron ons. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

January 13, 2001, 09:46 PM	#19
Longshot Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2000 Location: Oregon Posts: 717	Does anyone know how to make bumper stickers? Is there a way to do it with common home-PC equipment? Primarily, I'm concerned about them being waterproof. __________________ "You have to understand...most of these people are not ready to be unplugged...they are so inured, so completely dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it" Morpheus-The Matrix Semper Fi! Oregonians, please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our local "no compromise" chapter of the GOA

January 13, 2001, 09:49 PM	#20
dZ Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 1999 Location: Exiled, Fetid Swamp, DC Posts: 7,549	there is ink jet bumpersticker stock i think a spray fixative would keep it waterproof dZ

January 14, 2001, 01:42 AM	#21
Lance Gothic Member Join Date: October 20, 2000 Posts: 86	Brethren, Regarding the patch/flag/decal I know someone in the business and will contact them ASAP for a quantity quote. Regards, Lance Gothic Shibumi

January 14, 2001, 02:04 AM	#22
Satanta Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2000 Location: everywhere, U.S.A. Posts: 621	definatly a patch. would go nice with my other patriot f;ags yjay i fly on my scooter leathers.

January 16, 2001, 11:41 PM	#23
Byron Quick Staff In Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Waynesboro, Georgia, USA Posts: 2,361	Almost a victor? It depends on the breadth of your vision. Thermopylae is a tactical defeat-no question. A great battle, no doubt but still a defeat. But a battle is not the whole story-rather the entire story is that of the campaign. A couple of months after Thermopylae, the Persian army encountered the full force of the Greeks. Where they faced 300 Spartans with the red shields bearing a "lambda" with several thousand ancillary troops, at Plataea the Persian faced 4000 red faced lambda shields with 20,000 ancillary troops. The Persians ran at Plataea. They could not bear to face twelve times the number of Spartans they faced at Thermopylae. Thermopylae-tactical defeat-strategic victory.

January 18, 2001, 09:59 PM	#25
powderific Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2000 Location: South Dakota Posts: 137	Um, i hate to sound stupid, but could someone please tell me how you pronounce "Molon Labe"?