The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 14, 2011, 09:32 PM   #101
Shadi Khalil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,976
If I'm carrying I notify, even though I don't have to. I then place my hands on the wheel, sit perfectly still and wait for my ticket.
Shadi Khalil is offline  
Old December 14, 2011, 11:58 PM   #102
wyohusker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2007
Location: Middle of Wyoming Somewhere
Posts: 194
Been carring for almost two years now. I never really thought about it much. After reading here I most definatley will be handing both permits to the officers. We are not obligated to do so. I just don't see the harm. I know if if I were an officer I would rather know if someone is carring.
Then again I live in Wyoming where you do not have to have a permit in the state to carry. If I were an officer here, I would asume EVERYONE is packing.
wyohusker is offline  
Old December 15, 2011, 12:36 AM   #103
farmerboy
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,343
Also if i stop a CCW holder i assume they're legit as far as not a felon and all. And i tend to let them off with more verbal warnings. Just a thought. Also i don't like to make my way to vehicle and passenger is bent over digging I'n glove box (i have no idea what you're looking for). Better bet my hand is on my sidearm! Just wait until officer asks for info first. And last i hear people saying when you (Leo) or if he asks for CCW I'll show them because they can run me and find out I'm a CCW holder. Again, if i run you! I run only about 1 out of 5 people only and if i don't run you and find out and you don't give me your CCW license and i happen to see it I'n view or i get you out of vehicle and see it then we have a surprise. Again, i give alot more warnings to CCW holders. It's your call handle your business however you choose to.
farmerboy is offline  
Old December 15, 2011, 12:42 AM   #104
TX_QtPi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 26, 2011
Location: TX
Posts: 101
Quote:
wyohusker: Been carrying for almost two years now. I never really thought about it much. After reading here I most definitely will be handing both permits to the officers. We are not obligated to do so. I just don't see the harm. I know if if I were an officer I would rather know if someone is carrying. Then again I live in Wyoming where you do not have to have a permit in the state to carry. If I were an officer here, I would assume EVERYONE is packing.
^^^ X2,
I would too, and IMO, saying hey, you assumed right but it's cool, I got a permit/license just gives Mr leo doing my job and wanna go home a little peace of mind and not so much so as just stroking their ego.
honest open communication, in a slightly tense situation.
__________________
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
TX_QtPi is offline  
Old December 16, 2011, 06:39 AM   #105
Kirk Keller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 808
Pulled over twice

Once by local Raleigh PD, the other time by NC State Police. PD pullover was a non-event, as in "Thank you sir, just leave the gun in the glove box."

State Police wasn't so. Pulled over for expired registration, produced permit and license, informed the officer and was ordered to exit the vehicle, place my hands on the hood of the car while one trooper retrieved my handgun. The other trooper stood slightly behind me and off to the right with his hand on his gun until the other trooper secured my revolver from the glove box. When I got my gun back, it was covered with some oily black powder and needed to be cleaned. This all a block from my house.
__________________
Proud TFL Alumnus
Kirk Keller is offline  
Old December 16, 2011, 07:29 AM   #106
PADefenseTrainer
Member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2011
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 49
Kirk, I've seen similar situations.

The problem is police officers are just people.

And while most people (and police officers) are reasonable, some are complete tools that I'd cross the street to avoid.
PADefenseTrainer is offline  
Old December 16, 2011, 09:05 AM   #107
spacecoast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 14, 2009
Location: Sunshine and Keystone States
Posts: 4,152
Quote:
When I got my gun back, it was covered with some oily black powder and needed to be cleaned
Maybe looking for fingerprints?
spacecoast is offline  
Old December 16, 2011, 09:32 AM   #108
Kirk Keller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 808
No idea. Looked too course to be fingerprint powder. But it was everywhere.
__________________
Proud TFL Alumnus
Kirk Keller is offline  
Old December 17, 2011, 09:35 PM   #109
wayneinFL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,935
Quote:
Also i don't like to make my way to vehicle and passenger is bent over digging I'n glove box (i have no idea what you're looking for). Better bet my hand is on my sidearm! Just wait until officer asks for info first.
Yeah, there have been several responses in the thread about having paperwork out before the cop gets there. I've never heard anyone tout this as a good practice.

I always keep my registration and insurance card in a pocket on the visor. I keep my hands in plain sight until the officer asks for paperwork, then I get it for him.
wayneinFL is offline  
Old December 17, 2011, 09:58 PM   #110
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 8,119
Quote:
I keep my hands in plain sight until the officer asks for paperwork, then I get it for him.
What do you think hes going to ask you for, one of your beers?

Its not that hard to have your paperwork handy. You know that they are going to ask for it anyway. If its in your wallet, its fast, one stop shopping.

And cops and traffic stops aside, to me, keeping your paperwork in the car itself is right up there with keeping your house coordinates in your GPS as "home". Not a real smart idea.
__________________
“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
AK103K is offline  
Old December 17, 2011, 10:05 PM   #111
shootniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Posts: 1,147
Quote:
keeping your paperwork in the car itself is right up there with keeping your house coordinates in your GPS as "home". Not a real smart idea
What is the problem?
shootniron is offline  
Old December 17, 2011, 10:12 PM   #112
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
I think he means that, in the event of a break-in, any documents that have personal data, or that could be easily used to forge a false title or registration, could bite you.

Or leaving house keys in the car, or even the garage remote (it's not hard to open those, and find out the code; now we have an address, plus the code for the garage door opener, or a spare key.)

He has a point; this is why keeping the title in the car is a monumentally bad idea. For that matter, so is keeping spare house keys.

However, I am willing to run the risk with title and registration.
MLeake is offline  
Old December 17, 2011, 10:23 PM   #113
shootniron
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2011
Posts: 1,147
Yeah, I can see the point about the GPS if I were one to leave house keys in my auto, but I keep my keys in my pocket without any ID on them. And, I only have insurance cards and registration cards in the vehicles, so I do not really see how these things can be of much use to anyone.
shootniron is offline  
Old December 18, 2011, 08:42 AM   #114
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 8,119
Most people I know have their house keys on the same ring with their car keys, which is a bad idea.

I know none of us has "ever" left the car running and ran into the Quick Mart to get something, or something similar.

Add to that the garage door opener, the gps and/or all your paperwork in the glove box), and the mistakes start to add up.

Its bad enough they might get your car, but why give them the address to your house, and a means to get in? Its not like youre going to be there when they get there.
__________________
“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
AK103K is offline  
Old December 18, 2011, 09:28 AM   #115
Skadoosh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,776
Garage door security has drastically improved to include rolling code technology. "Code grabbing" has been a thing of the past for quite a while. A stolen remote can be disabled by using the "relearn" feature on virtually all garage door openers manufactured since 2003.
Skadoosh is offline  
Old December 18, 2011, 09:37 AM   #116
Sparks1957
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 4, 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,473
I, for one, never leave my car running with the rest of my keys in it. That's crazy, and is asking for trouble.
Sparks1957 is offline  
Old December 18, 2011, 10:08 AM   #117
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Skadoosh, you assume people have post-2003 door openers. Last ones I had were probably original issue withe the late 1980s construction house, and had 5 or 6 sliding pins that were each set forward or back.

Not exactly a cryptographic challenge... Not with the older stuff (that is still in some use.)

Edit: my truck has remote starting, for warming up on cold days or cooling on hot ones. But, the system kills the engine if somebody attempts to put the transmission in gear, and the remote start sequence is initiated by first pressing the door lock key.

Otherwise, I do not leave a running vehicle unattended, either.
MLeake is offline  
Old December 18, 2011, 06:23 PM   #118
Vermonter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2010
Posts: 955
papers ready

I still think doing anything during a stop other than what is asked is foolish. An officer is aware that most people keep documents in the glove box. I gotta believe that moving prematurley is a bad idea.
Vermonter is offline  
Old December 18, 2011, 06:27 PM   #119
Dragline45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,674
Have been pulled over 3 times since I started carrying. Twice for speeding, once for failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign. Only one officer acknowledged that I had a firearm on me. He first asked what the LTC was for. Then asked if I had my firearm on me and where. Once informed he just told me to leave it where it is. Thankfully I came out of all three instances with only a warning. Living in Mass where most people don't/cant carry I was expecting to be hassled but apparently that was not the case.

I personally think there is no need to inform the officer without them asking. It pops up as a red flag when they run their plates, I am sure they just assume I have a firearm on me whether I do or not.
Dragline45 is offline  
Old December 18, 2011, 08:07 PM   #120
wayneinFL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,935
Quote:
What do you think hes going to ask you for, one of your beers?
Funny. I know exactly what he's going to ask for. But I'm not reaching for anything until I'm told. From what the cop sees, I could be shuffling around getting my papers out of the glovebox, or out of my wallet. Or I could be stashing drugs or a gun.

Quote:
Its not that hard to have your paperwork handy. You know that they are going to ask for it anyway. If its in your wallet, its fast, one stop shopping.
That's an idea for someone who only has one vehicle. I'm not keeping the registration for my four vehicles, a company vehicle, a rental truck and a rental car in my wallet. Along with 3+ different insurance policies.

Besides I'm not reaching for anything until the cop asks me to do it, and even then I'm going to do it very slowly, keep my hands where he can see them, and let him know if I'm doing anything he might not expect.
Not gonna end up like Amadou Diallo.

I don't like nervous cops and I don't like guns pointed at me. Been there, done that- played Simon Says with two Okeechobee cops with guns pointed at me, both giving me conflicting commands at a traffic stop.

Why is it such a big deal to sit still until the cop is watching and is ready for you to do it? Are you in a hurry? Do you have someplace to go?
wayneinFL is offline  
Old December 19, 2011, 04:09 AM   #121
Hunter Rose
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2001
Location: 30 miles from Everywhere, right in the middle of Nowhere...
Posts: 718
Maybe Wisconsin is different, but I have never been asked for registration or proof of insurance.

I'm usually pulling my wallet out as I manuver to the side of the road. License in hand, dome light on (after dark) and window down when he arrives at my vehicle.

Only been able to carry for a month. Should I get pulled over, my LTC will be in hand too...
Hunter Rose is offline  
Old December 19, 2011, 04:41 AM   #122
jughead2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2008
Location: tenn.
Posts: 202
pulled over

this old man just wishes tenn. officers would get over their "cocked and locked" phobia. 2 stops in 15 years and 3 different officers read me the riot act over it. they can tell me where to carry per state law BUT it aint none of their business how i carry per state law.
jughead2 is offline  
Old December 19, 2011, 08:47 PM   #123
igousigloo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: central Ohio
Posts: 135
In Ohio we are required to inform, also if they run our plates it tells them if the owner has a ccl. I hit a deer Friday night and called the OSP. When the officer responded I handed him my drivers license and said that I have a CCL. He asked if I was carrying and I said yes. That is the last time it was mentioned in the whole encounter.
igousigloo is offline  
Old December 21, 2011, 01:55 AM   #124
wayneinFL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,935
Quote:
this old man just wishes tenn. officers would get over their "cocked and locked" phobia. 2 stops in 15 years and 3 different officers read me the riot act over it. they can tell me where to carry per state law BUT it aint none of their business how i carry per state law.
When they tell you it's dangerous, you're supposed to say, "You're damned right it is."

Don't know how Tennessee is but most officers here have never carried a 1911. Last time I saw a police officer with a 1911, it was a Levy County deputy. I commented that it was good to see there was a department that still trusted their deputies to carry a 1911. He chuckled and said, "Let me tell you a story about that..." He was the chief firearms instructor. He was told he wasn't allowed to carry it- that it was against policy. He told them that he wrote the policy and was allowed to carry it.

Quote:
Maybe Wisconsin is different, but I have never been asked for registration or proof of insurance.
Must be. Here they want license, registration, and proof of insurance. When cops wake you from a deep slumber on the side of the road and ask you for these things you naturally reach for them. That night in Okeechobee (kind of a hick town) I had one guy asking for the papers. I reached for my wallet and the other guy started screaming "Put your hands where I can see them!"

So I put my hands up above the roof of my car.

"License and registration!"

Reached for the wallet.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"License and registration!"

Reached for the wallet.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"I need to see your license and registration!"

"Guys, this isn't going to work. My license is in my wallet. Do you want to get it?"

"Step out away from the door and turn your back toward me. Get your wallet out slowly."

I got my wallet out and gave him my license. Then he asked for the registration and proof of insurance, so I reached back into the car to get my stuff out of the glovebox. "Put your hands where I can see them!"

So I put my hands up above the roof of my car.

"Get your registration!"

Reached for the glovebox.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"Your registration!"

Reached for the glovebox.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up above the roof.

"Man, my papers are in my glovebox. Do you want to get them? Or do you want me to do it? I don't want to get shot tonight."

So he walked me around the car. I tried the door, and sure enough the door was locked. So I reached into my pocket for the keys.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up.

"Open the door!"

Reached for the keys.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up.

"Open the door!"

Reached for the keys.

"Put your hands where I can see them!"

Hands up.

"Open the door!"

"Guys, guys, guys. Stop. We're doing it again. This ain't gonna work. The door's locked. You want to get my keys out of my pocket?"

"Alright, just turn towards me and get your keys out. Slowly."

So, I did so, opened the door, and he got my registration and insurance card out. He picked up a camping hatchet out of the floor, and told me that was why they were worried about me. It was something I always had in there, and they saw it when they stopped and to check me out on the side of the road. They apparently had been there for a while checking me out. I had slept through the whole thing until I startled awake with all the lights. When I saw the lights, I woke and jumped up, thinking I had fallen asleep driving and was about to get in a head on collision. It scared me, so I jumped up and grabbed the wheel, and slammed on the brake. When I realized I was parked, I got out to see what all the lights were for. I turned around and saw the blue lights, and said, "You guys scared the **** outta me!", and that's when all the fun started.

Anyway, we discussed it a little, and they had a good laugh over the whole thing, and told me I could continue sleeping. Too bad, I was awake by then.

Since then, I've seen videos in which cops have been killed at traffic stops, and understand why they're... uhh... overly cautious... sometimes. Since that experience, I am probably the most careful person you've ever seen at a traffic stop. Last time I was stopped was in GA, by a city cop on the interstate just inside the FL line. I had the lights on, hands on the wheel until he got to the car and asked from my license. "Okay. My wallet's in my left hip pocket. I'm going to reach over with my left hand to unbuckle my seat belt, then reach back to get my wallet." I don't leave ANY room for surprises.

Last edited by wayneinFL; December 21, 2011 at 02:03 AM.
wayneinFL is offline  
Old December 21, 2011, 01:57 AM   #125
wayneinFL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,935
Now that I think about it, I wish I had the dash cam video. I'll bet it's hilarious.
wayneinFL is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14053 seconds with 7 queries