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Old December 9, 2011, 10:36 AM   #26
Silent Bob
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Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.


I interpret this, as did my CHL instructor, that a hosptial must be properly posted with a 30.06 compliant sign in order to bar CHL holders.

TexasJustice 7, didn't mean to sound snarky with you, but I have heard of CHL carriers confronting owners of businesses about their non-compliant signs only to return and find legal, compliant signs in their place. My policy is if the sign is not legal, then I ignore it and do not educate the owner on their ignorance. I am not in the habit of letting people other then close friends and family know that I carry a gun anyway.
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Old December 9, 2011, 12:16 PM   #27
TexasJustice7
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Quote:
TexasJustice 7, didn't mean to sound snarky with you, but I have heard of CHL carriers confronting owners of businesses about their non-compliant signs only to return and find legal, compliant signs in their place. My policy is if the sign is not legal, then I ignore it and do not educate the owner on their ignorance. I am not in the habit of letting people other then close friends and family know that I carry a gun anyway.
My brother in law enforcement interprets that unless it is posted with a 30.06 sign it is not enforecable, but in my case I did not want a situation happening where they might detain me, for violating their unenforcable sign.
If they give me proper notice, oral, written or otherwise, then I will not
carry there, but I will terminate the medical provider's services that my
daughter gets there.

I don't think however, we should violate the owner's intent just because their sign is not legal notice, and I would rather respect the owner's
intent, and get services from somewhere else.

Someone mentioned that maybe the reason the 30.06 signs have not
gone up, it might be that some of the doctors carry. I had not thought
about that, but I think that maybe this issue had not been addressed.
I know in Texas, hospitals as well as a number of other government
entities prohibited CWP holders from carrying but SB 501 removed the
right from some of them to do that. I don't know if the hospital falls
into that category. The lady I am in contact with seems very receptive
to the issues I have raised, and I am not trying to cause them a problem.
I just need an answer. I did not like someone from there having a police officer contact me, but it might not have been her. Could have been some
anti gun person who overheard her conversation on the phone with me.

I endure this at Federal VA facilities, but at least when it comes to civilian medical care, I can vote with my feet.

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Old December 10, 2011, 02:05 PM   #28
bikerbill
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My understanding is that any business may post a handmade "no guns" sign, but it does not have the force of law. However, if the shop owner is serious and somehow sees your concealed weapon, he may ask you to leave, and police can be called if you refuse, under trespass laws. A sign meeting the exact letter of the 30.06 portion of the law is the only way to enforce keeping guns out of your establishment. I've been in two hospitals in the Austin area since I got my CHL (as a visitor) and both had 30.06 signs posted. My gun stayed in the trunk of the car.
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Old December 10, 2011, 04:23 PM   #29
saands
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TJ7:

I understand your stance on wanting to respect the wishes of an establishment, but I fail to see what the confusion at the hospital is. They clearly posted the sign, so they are telling you that they'd prefer you didn't carry there. The fact that they didn't follow the 30.06 requirements means that it is more of a suggestion or a request and not a law. Kind of like the orange and black signs on a highway offramp that tell you how fast they think you should go on the cloverleaf. Life is full of decisions and it is my feeling that the fewer that are made for us, the better. If a business suggests that I don't carry, but I don't feel right about leaving my tools in the car for whatever reason, I have options (I can ignore it, I can lock hardware in the car, or I can choose to not be a patron). If someone tells them that their sign could be more prohibitive and they upgrade it, it just takes away my options ...

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Old December 11, 2011, 04:49 AM   #30
TexasJustice7
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Quote:
Saands: I understand your stance on wanting to respect the wishes of an establishment, but I fail to see what the confusion at the hospital is. They clearly posted the sign, so they are telling you that they'd prefer you didn't carry there. The fact that they didn't follow the 30.06 requirements means that it is more of a suggestion or a request and not a law. Kind of like the orange and black signs on a highway offramp that tell you how fast they think you should go on the cloverleaf. Life is full of decisions and it is my feeling that the fewer that are made for us, the better. If a business suggests that I don't carry, but I don't feel right about leaving my tools in the car for whatever reason, I have options (I can ignore it, I can lock hardware in the car, or I can choose to not be a patron). If someone tells them that their sign could be more prohibitive and they upgrade it, it just takes away my options ...

Well I guess here is my assessment. If their intent is CWP Holders, not
carry (sign not written in Spainish either), then they need to tell me, that,
or put up 30.06 signs, in either case, I will identify the hospital and make it public information. But say, I ignore the sign, and am detained and someone has to be called to get my handicapped daughter, then the apologies would come but so would a lawsuit. I do not beleive for one minute if I were a crime victim on their property that they would be willing at all to share any criminal liability. Fine, if they do not want CWP holders, then
my business for which they are getting paid for, plus their medical procedures, can be paid for somewhere else. In this day and age, 90
year old women get body scanned at airports, just because the government
does not address the real problem. I am sure that if they illegally detained me based upon the unenforcable signs, they would apologise later, but then
someone woud have had to come from another state to get my disabled
daughter. Then they would think it unreasonable for me to file a lawsuit over it. I am not looking for trouble nor something to sue for. Just make
it clear whether it applies to me. But when they make it clear, that they
do not want me nor other CWP holders to carry there, then I can take my
business and my daughter's elsewhere, and the information can be made public. Having a police officer visit someone asking about an unenforcable sign is like treating CWP holders like they have Leprousy. While the lady
I am speaking with may not have done that, someone there did.
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