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Old December 7, 2011, 01:38 PM   #1
markofkane
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Shipping firearms

I have a Taurus PT-99. I went to a gunsmith for repair because sending it to the manufacturer is expensive. According to UPS, it can only be shipped by Next Day Air. And it's a federal law. I was just curious: Why does it have to be next day air? It's the most expensive way to ship something.
Is it just some silly law, or is there a good reason?
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Old December 7, 2011, 01:45 PM   #2
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Why does it have to be next day air? It's the most expensive way to ship something.
It has to be sent next day air *because* it is the most expensive way. It's not the law, it's just their policy, but there are laws about it.

See if the FFL who sold you the gun will ship if for you; he can use Priority Mail. (you can't, so don't you even think about mailing it)
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Old December 7, 2011, 01:45 PM   #3
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There is no specific law stating that it must go next day air. That's just their policy. Sense you cannot send a handgun via USPS you're at the mercy of what UPS wants to require.
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Old December 7, 2011, 01:47 PM   #4
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Most reputable manufacturers will pay the shipping for warranty returns.
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Old December 7, 2011, 01:49 PM   #5
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Thanks for the responses. If the gunsmith cannot fix it, I'll try to send it to the manufacturer.
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Old December 7, 2011, 01:53 PM   #6
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UPS began requiring next day air because so many guns left in their depots overnight walked away and their insurance was sky high. It was almost funny to watch the CEO of UPS on TV explain about "security concerns" and "service to the customer." He never told the simple truth - "UPS hires a bunch of thieves."

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Old December 7, 2011, 02:19 PM   #7
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Oh, so it's because UPS has lax security is the reason. Makes sense.
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Old December 7, 2011, 02:22 PM   #8
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What others have said, they are a good target for thieves.....make sure you pack it good too. My friends son worked @ a UPS processing center for the summer, they call the guys that load the trucks "throwers" for a reason.
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Old December 7, 2011, 02:25 PM   #9
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Ask your local gun store to ship it for you,,,

My guy at the Evil Pawn Shop said he would charge me $5.00 over what it costs him.

Maybe your LGS will do that for you as well.

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Old December 7, 2011, 02:28 PM   #10
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He never told the simple truth - "UPS hires a bunch of thieves."
Heh, they hired my sister-in-law who was a crack addict and thief at the time... There are a lot of different individuals in that organization. The straightest shooters I believe are the life-time drivers. The questionable ones are hired as holiday helpers on the trucks and in the lines.

This is why they don't want to keep a gun in their possession any longer than absolutely necessary. It is cheaper to have a FFL ship it for you and pay the FFL fee plus USPS charge.
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Old December 7, 2011, 02:29 PM   #11
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When I shipped my revolver to S&W, they had a letter from S&W saying it was OK to ship 2nd-day air. Saved me some money in shipping IIRC, although it wasn't cheap either.
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Old December 7, 2011, 02:35 PM   #12
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When I shipped my revolver to S&W, they had a letter from S&W saying it was OK to ship 2nd-day air. Saved me some money in shipping IIRC, although it wasn't cheap either.
The only way you can ship 2nd day air is if it is on their account. I have had them send me a preprinted label and was able to ship second day air but they cannot authorize you to ship that way against the common carriers rules.

If it worked it worked because UPS and Fed Ex are often ingnorant of their own policies.
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Old December 7, 2011, 02:38 PM   #13
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This is why they don't want to keep a gun in their possession any longer than absolutely necessary. It is cheaper to have a FFL ship it for you and pay the FFL fee plus USPS charge.
The problem with this is that your local FFL has to put the gun into his book. You are transfering it to him out of your ownership. He is sending it to the repair or warranty shop and therefore it must be transfered back to you when the work is done vs having it shipped directly to you at your home.

I could be wrong on this but this has always been my understanding.
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Old December 7, 2011, 03:08 PM   #14
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so could you ship it regular and just not tell them that it's a firearm since its there policy and not actual law.
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Old December 7, 2011, 03:12 PM   #15
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If it worked it worked because UPS and Fed Ex are often ingnorant of their own policies.
Maybe, but I wasn't arguing.
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Old December 7, 2011, 03:24 PM   #16
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so could you ship it regular and just not tell them that it's a firearm since its there policy and not actual law.
Yes you can and when it is lost or stolen from their shop or the door step they left it on you will not have an insurance claim. I know lots of people who claim that their gun is "machine parts" and ship that way. Depending on the value of the gun you maybe risking a lot of $$$$$.

Also if you are shipping on your business account they can also suspend or cancel it if you are shipping undeclared firearms.

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Maybe, but I wasn't arguing.
Oh I hear you... It really ****** me off that they cannot keep the packages secure so instead of fixing that issue they simply make is cost prohibitive.
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Old December 7, 2011, 10:48 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by taurus4life
so could you ship it regular and just not tell them that it's a firearm since its there policy and not actual law.
You could do that ... if you'd like to win an all-expenses paid vacation in a Federally-subsidized Greybar Hotel.

The Federal law stipulating that you can ship handguns by common carrier also explicitly states that you MUST notify the carrier that the package contains a handgun. So if you play dumb and don't tell them it's a gun (I've heard too many people advising to just declare it as "machine parts"), you may save $10 or $20 -- or you may be arrested for a felony offense. I'll pay the extra $10 or $20.
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Old December 7, 2011, 11:10 PM   #18
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You could do that ... if you'd like to win an all-expenses paid vacation in a Federally-subsidized Greybar Hotel.

The Federal law stipulating that you can ship handguns by common carrier also explicitly states that you MUST notify the carrier that the package contains a handgun. So if you play dumb and don't tell them it's a gun (I've heard too many people advising to just declare it as "machine parts"), you may save $10 or $20 -- or you may be arrested for a felony offense. I'll pay the extra $10 or $20.
No it doesn't. You are only *required* to notify them if the recipient is in another state and does not have a FFL. (that doesn't mean it's a good idea, and the "machine parts" thing might be illegal but I don't think so)
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Old December 7, 2011, 11:56 PM   #19
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zxcvbob

Quote:
Quote:
You could do that ... if you'd like to win an all-expenses paid vacation in a Federally-subsidized Greybar Hotel.

The Federal law stipulating that you can ship handguns by common carrier also explicitly states that you MUST notify the carrier that the package contains a handgun. So if you play dumb and don't tell them it's a gun (I've heard too many people advising to just declare it as "machine parts"), you may save $10 or $20 -- or you may be arrested for a felony offense. I'll pay the extra $10 or $20.
No it doesn't. You are only *required* to notify them if the recipient is in another state and does not have a FFL. (that doesn't mean it's a good idea, and the "machine parts" thing might be illegal but I don't think so)


Excerpt below from ATF site.

Quote:
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
The thing is, as a non-licensee, you can't ship it interstate to anyone but a licensee. As a non-licensee you can't use the USPS for interstate mailing of firearms, period. A non-licensee can only use the USPS for intrastate shipping of long-guns.

As a non-licensee, for interstate long-guns, you have to use a common carrier. Also, for interstate and intrastate handguns, as a non-licensee, you have to use a common carrier which costs way more than using a FFL who charges a fee in addition to their USPS fee. If using UPS/FedEx...etc. you are required to inform them that it is a firearm.

Of course, it is a gray area because I suppose if one is willing to break the law and not inform the UPS/FedEx clerk that the package contains a firearm, one can also lie that they did tell the UPS/FedEx clerk that they did and that it was the clerk who screwed up.
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Old December 8, 2011, 12:04 AM   #20
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[sigh] That quote from the ATF's FAQ page is wrong (and they know it is wrong) You need to look up the actual statute. If you ship by common carrier to a FFL or to any non-prohibited person in your own state, federal law does not require any notification. We go over this every few weeks.

If you do not notify UPS and it gets lost, you can bet they will not pay the insurance claim. But there's a good chance they wouldn't pay anyway. (I don't know about FedEx.) You pay your $2 and take your chance.

Why not ship it "2nd day economy air"?

If this were a Ruger or a S&W instead of a Taurus, all this would be moot because they wouldn't require the customer to pay for a warranty return.
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Old December 8, 2011, 06:20 AM   #21
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I'm sure the reason is due to security, as stated. I loaded trucks at night for UPS in college because they pay your tuition, sweet deal btw... They were EXTREMELY concerned with theft. We couldn't wear rings, watches, ect... We didn't get patted down when leaving but they'd look at us and if anything was bulky in our pockets we'd have to empty them. I saw a couple guys get fired for stealing so it's definitely a real concern.
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Old December 8, 2011, 08:25 AM   #22
markofkane
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Yeah, because UPS has crooks working for them, I have to pay huge shipping fees. Well anyhow, if my gunsmith doesn't fix my gun, I'll try to get it sent off using a licensed dealer.
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Old December 8, 2011, 11:43 AM   #23
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Its fine shipping it with UPS. I worked there back in college and you just dont want to ship it ground. 2nd or next day is fine.
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Old December 8, 2011, 11:52 AM   #24
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Its fine shipping it with UPS. I worked there back in college and you just dont want to ship it ground. 2nd or next day is fine.
No it is not. If you are shipping a handgun you need to ship it next day air with adult signature required if you are shipping UPS.

The lowest method that you can send it and stay in compliance with their company policy is Next Day Air Saver......

We go over this just about every month.......

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res.../firearms.html

Handguns, as defined by 18 U.S.C. § 921,will be accepted for transportation only via UPS Next Day Air Services, specifically, UPS Next Day Air® Early A.M.®, UPS Next Day Air®, and UPS Next Day Air Saver®. (Note: UPS Express CriticalSM Service is not available for firearms).
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Old December 8, 2011, 12:05 PM   #25
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zxcvbob
[sigh] That quote from the ATF's FAQ page is wrong (and they know it is wrong) You need to look up the actual statute. If you ship by common carrier to a FFL or to any non-prohibited person in your own state, federal law does not require any notification. We go over this every few weeks.

If you do not notify UPS and it gets lost, you can bet they will not pay the insurance claim. But there's a good chance they wouldn't pay anyway. (I don't know about FedEx.) You pay your $2 and take your chance.

Why not ship it "2nd day economy air"?

If this were a Ruger or a S&W instead of a Taurus, all this would be moot because they wouldn't require the customer to pay for a warranty return.
So these are wrong too?

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=60
http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Sup...spx?faqid=1118
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf (pg 9 sec 9e)

From the Statute...

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27...0.1.2.3.3.1.13
§ 478.31 Delivery by common or contract carrier.
top
(a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.


So unless the common carrier's counter jockey is uninformed of his company's policy, they are going to require you to ship it overnight if you tell him/her that the package contains a firearm. If you don't, then you're violating federal law.

Seriously, I rather not stay at Club Fed just to save a measly $30. Like I keep on saying - It's cheaper to use a reasonable FFL and have 'em charge you a fee plus the USPS fees.
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