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Old December 9, 2011, 07:18 PM   #51
BUFF
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Friend of mine spent 2 weeks in county jail because he hit a guy in a bar fight with an ashtray off the table. He's 6'2 245lbs. The other dude made him look like a toddler. But my buddy now has an assault and battery record and he can't own any firearms. Just trying to defend himself. What's it gonna look like to a judge when you hit somebody with a blackjack or something similar that you carry everyday? I'm not saying you can't defend yourself, just be prepared to have to "lawyer up" whether you shoot somebody or pummel them with a stick.
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Old December 9, 2011, 07:30 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C0untZer0
If you don't have time to draw a gun, you don't have time to arm yourself with a black-jack either.
I'd rather be unable to draw a baton/blackjack/sap and fumble over it than do it with a gun.
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Old December 9, 2011, 09:57 PM   #53
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I don't know why I would want one. I do not intend to get into any fights, and if I am attacked I need more than a sap.
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Old December 9, 2011, 10:31 PM   #54
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I drove over the road for a number of years. This placed me in many different jurisdictions and to many conflicting jurisdictions to carry a blackjack, pepper spray, stungun or other nonlethal device.

I carried a 24oz claw hammer. When stopped and asked, I explained that I used it to thump tires and block and brace loads. It came in very handy one night when I had to place it between the legs of a punk who wasn't as tough as he thought.

An ABC Fire Extinguisher is legal and nonthreatning. It is also extremely effective. It has a range of 20ft. Should deploy at 15ft.

When inhaled it causes the target to immediately start coughing, gaging and wretching.

In the eyes, it causes immediate tearing and burning. If untreated it will cause damage up to and including blindness.

Swung sharply it will break an arm.
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Old December 10, 2011, 11:46 AM   #55
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ITC, you beat me to it. Folks going to Mexico used to ask me what they should carry for defense - I told them a fire extinguesher. If anybody asked why they had one in their tent (or motel room), just tell them you were burned as a child. At a car accident or "disabled" car, take it with you "in case there is a fire".

Whenever someone mentions knives, I ask if getting covered with the blood of a hype with HIV is part of their long term survival plan.

And if I got into an argument that heated that someone wanted to hit me, "Nike time!" It's just not that important, and besides, if you strike back, it can be considered 'mutual combat', and you become an agressor as well, liable for the injuries ultimatly suffered by the other combatant.
It's may not be considered defense of your life, if you stuck around to 'duke it out'.
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Old December 10, 2011, 12:16 PM   #56
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In Texas blackjacks, brass knuckles, and knives with blades in over 51/2 inches are prohibited weapons. Blackjacks and knuckles will get you jailed with losing your CHL as one result. The knife may be overlooked depending on the cop. Also, a big stick or some such can be interpreted to be a club.
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Old December 10, 2011, 12:16 PM   #57
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+1 to the SAP gloves. I have a fingerless set, and each glove has about ten ounces of steel shot in each. As far as I know, they are legal here in Colorado (as long as you're not directly instigating situations with them, which you shouldn't do regardless )

They're actually pretty unassuming, and the effect they give is pretty remarkable. When I bought them, I was like, "that was a waste of money. These are going to hurt my hands WORSE if I punch anything." wrong- the biggest benefit they have is they actually shield your hand against whatever you hit with them. I was throwing punches against things to where if I wasn't wearing them, I would have three or four broken fingers. Overall usefulness however, I think is slim to nil. If you have to punch anyone, I would rather do it without since wearing them looks like you were picking the fight, since you came "prepared" to do so. Well, they're kind of a fun novelty, being able to turn your hands into dead blow hammers. And technically it's open carry

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Old December 10, 2011, 12:56 PM   #58
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I live in Florida and blackjack and saps are legal but you have to have a concealed carry permit. In Florida it is legal to carry a gun in your car without a permit as long as it is secure in a holster, glovebox, firearmbox, ammo box, etc. It has to be secured and not readily available to children. I wonder if you are able to carry a firearm in your car w/o a permit, can you carry a blackjack in your car without one?
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Old December 10, 2011, 02:03 PM   #59
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Hhmmm....Well. with re: to post # 11, I've seen a # of said "punks" carrying canes for much the same reason that they're being recommended in this forum. And, if those folks are carrying them, I'd say they know how to use them, for both offense & defense. I won't even bother to do more than mention that they probably get a bit more practice using them than do the law-abiding members of this forum.--Patrice
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Old December 10, 2011, 04:13 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleuth
Whenever someone mentions knives, I ask if getting covered with the blood of a hype with HIV is part of their long term survival plan.
This is a very good point, something that people forget. But it's even more reason to be used as a last resort.
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Old December 10, 2011, 05:48 PM   #61
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Good call BlackFeather. I carry my push-button knife and my Colt. The way I look at it, is if I have to use my knife against someone to fend them off, I really need to be using the Colt instead.
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Old December 11, 2011, 06:43 AM   #62
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Well, I DO prefer a knife in a lot of situations, mostly the ones I've been in. I can hardly find a situation where a gun would have been any better. But I've still never needed the knife. Also, most people don't have the skill or experience with a knife to be in a confrontation and NOT risk open wounds. I can't say I'm any better, even with practice.

I would rather cut someone off of me, who has taken me to the ground, than worry about a gun. I'd rather make a cut on someone who has decided to take a swing with a stick, than avoid and draw a gun. These situations require contact range, and getting out of there fast enough is difficult, much less drawing a concealed firearm. But empty handed I have less risk. My main point is, if he's alone, I don't think I need a knife. If I have to worry about who's next, I'm cutting him away, stabbing the next guy, and hoping I've cleared a way out. Perfect scenario, but I try and be positive.

I just don't believe it could be done the same with a firearm. Also, I'm in California and don't have that option.
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Old December 11, 2011, 09:17 AM   #63
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In extreme CQB, like grappling, a knife is a very good option, better than a firearm in many ways.

If wielded properly, it is very difficult to be wrested away, unless the assailant has mad knife skills himself.

A knife can't be rendered inoperable by clasping or gripping it.

Knives are intimidating at a primal level; no one likes the idea of being cut.

Obviously, not letting someone close the distance to you would allow use of a superior weapon (read: handgun), but in the real world, you may not have that luxury.

Like any weapon, if a knife is carried with the intention of self defense, you should practice as you would with any other weapon. If you are not prepared mentally to use it, it won't be nearly as effective.
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Old December 11, 2011, 02:32 PM   #64
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Saps and blackjacks are Illegal here in NC, that being said I've had one for years and still keep in handy in the car. Most folks don't realize how deadly a blackjack can be. Unless you are willing to end a life never hit anyone in the head with one; it's just to easy to kill someone.

As several others have suggested a cane is a much better defensive tool, legal everywhere, have a great reach, and will create a sympathy factor if ever used.

Last edited by old bear; December 11, 2011 at 02:44 PM.
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Old December 11, 2011, 03:06 PM   #65
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Haven't carried one since I left NC's Central Prison in the 70's...


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Old December 12, 2011, 09:11 AM   #66
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There are many reasons to carry something other than a gun. The short list:

A walking stick, older guys have no problems with carrying one, is already in your hand, and if that elusive and mystical guy with a knife at 21 feet finds you, you can fend him off whilst drawing your gun.

You could have other things out like that walking stick or an OC canister when you see someone suspicious, and if it turns out to be a false alarm just put it back in your pocket, but a drawn gun can attract unwanted attention, and harder to return to the holster or pocket.

There are many smart reasons to carry additional protection, as a gun is last resort, and can get you deeper into a situation instead of out it in certain situations. It also depends on where you travel, etc...

Your best second weapon is expertise in hand to hand, but that takes time, so get on it! Martial arts teaches you things that directly apply to shooting, and that list is long ... must run!
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Old December 12, 2011, 03:37 PM   #67
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I've never carried a sap, but I've been called one on occasion.
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Old December 12, 2011, 04:20 PM   #68
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I hear about how hard it is to try to wrestle away a knife from an individual, if i come across an individual wielding a knife at me I'm just going to shoot him and get the knife away from him and problem solved.
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Old December 12, 2011, 05:11 PM   #69
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I believe a "sap" is considered to be a deadly weapon in my state
and is prohibited.
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Old December 12, 2011, 05:37 PM   #70
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Quote:
if i come across an individual wielding a knife at me I'm just going to shoot him and get the knife away from him and problem solved.
It sounds easy ... are you talking from personal experience? I doubt it!
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Old December 12, 2011, 05:53 PM   #71
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+1 on never bring a knife to a gunfight...

I'm not going to get into knife duals or dueling blackjacks with someone, I'm not going to get into fisticuffs and wait unit I'm obviously on the verge of losing and being beaten to death.

I am in the gravest extreme in fear for my life, I draw the firearm. If the aggresion / attack stops I dial 911, if the aggresion doesn't stop I use the firearm.
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Old December 12, 2011, 06:08 PM   #72
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Like others, I was issued one when I first started in Law Enforcement. You carried it in a sap pocked sewn into your trousers along side the seam. I used it ALL the time. If you weren't careful, and hit someone with the edge, you would open up a nasty laceration on their head or face, but if you used the beavertail side, it was a great tool. . . until I learned how to use my PR-24 more effectively. Sap went into the drawer in about 1980. . .Also, in Colorado it is a "dangerous weapon" and can't be carried or used by a civilian.
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Old December 12, 2011, 06:20 PM   #73
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Not legal in Maine. However, I knew a guy who carried one 20 years or so ago, in his back pocket. He worked security on 3rd shift in a VERY bad part of town (and forbidden by his employers to carry a .38 snub), and reasoned that that bad guys carried what ever, so he was willing to risk a criminal charge, if it saved his life. He reasoned that his leather flat sap was silent and if used properly, non-deadly, unlike a gun.
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Old December 12, 2011, 06:24 PM   #74
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I wonder if on the Black-jack forum there is a thread titled "Does anyone carry a revolver or a semiauto?"
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Old December 12, 2011, 06:31 PM   #75
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CountZero, I hope you mean:

"I use the firearm and then call 9-1-1".
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