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Old December 5, 2011, 08:00 AM   #26
Sport45
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I can notice the difference for sure between the FMJ and the HP and I was curious how often some of you shoot your self defense rounds?
Makes sense to me. His FMJ are cheap range fodder and the HP's are loaded hotter for SD.
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Old December 5, 2011, 09:10 AM   #27
BillyBeards
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Quote:
Quote:
I am very new to shooting but I do enjoy going to the range and shooting very much. I don't think twice about putting 100+ rounds through my Glock 26 but today was the first time I shot Hollow Points.
I can notice the difference for sure between the FMJ and the HP and I was curious how often some of you shoot your self defense rounds?
I am skeptical of the quote and the reason why is, if both the practice ammo and SD ammo is of the same weight bullet how are you able to tell the difference between the 2. I can't tell the difference between my 115 grain fmj and my 115 grain hp. Strange
I tested a couple different brands of ammo this weekend from Federal,PMC, and TulAmmo in FMJ and Fed Hydra-Shok and Speer Gold Dot in HP. I could feel the difference between all three of the FMJ rounds I tried even though they were all 115gr. Some felt hotter, some smoked more.
It's all a learning experience.

Last edited by Capt Charlie; December 5, 2011 at 01:49 PM. Reason: vBulletin correction from code to quote
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Old December 5, 2011, 11:24 AM   #28
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I mostly shoot my own hand loads but I typically load them to a similar level to factory ammo
Same here, I have a handload for a LSWC that very closely emulates the FBI load (158 gr. LSWCHP +P) from my .38 specials. I don't shoot them very often, but do when I have an opportunity to engage in rapid-fire SD practice. 50 +P rounds from an airweight snubby in 40 degree temps gets painful pretty quickly, but they are quite fun from a K-frame snubby. The difference between a normal "public range pace" (no more than one shot every 2 seconds) and rapid fire (4-5 shots per second) is eye-opening, especially if you don't get to shoot rapid fire very often.

Quote:
I can't tell the difference between my 115 grain fmj and my 115 grain hp
Don -

I they are referring to the difference between typical WWB FMJs and SD HP loads which might be +P or +P+. Quite a difference depending on the gun.

Last edited by spacecoast; December 5, 2011 at 12:45 PM.
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Old December 5, 2011, 11:56 AM   #29
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Once I am reasonably assured that the gun and ammo work well together, not very often.

I don't use +p in my carry platform and usually use the same bullet weight in FMJ for practice.
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Old December 5, 2011, 07:15 PM   #30
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I use standard pressure ammo for practice. I mix in old carry ammo (+P in 9mm and sometimes .45) occasionally when I need to replace it. A little more recoil, but doesn't make any difference on the range. Hits are the same. Steel targets still go ding.

Blessed are those who actually run the generic termed "200 rds." (or more) of the ammo they intend to carry thru their guns. 200 X $35 a box = $350 for CorBon DPX. Doable with HST in reasonably priced 50 rd. boxes.

I put plenty rds. of different varieties thru my guns and a few mags. of carry ammo. If all goes without a hitch, I carry it.

While it doesn't take the place of actual shooting, hand cycling ammo thru the gun is a fairly good indicator of how well the gun likes it.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Last edited by Nnobby45; December 5, 2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old December 5, 2011, 08:02 PM   #31
m&p45acp10+1
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I hand load so the typical 200 rounds of SD ammo for me is a cost of less than $60 for those using Hornady XTP JHP in 9mm. Add about $10 for .45 acp.

I load them to the level of the factory SD rounds. They feel the same to me. I also shoot a lot of cast lead. I would not feel undergunned to carry my own cast lead handloads in a pinch.
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Old December 5, 2011, 10:47 PM   #32
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I shoot SD rounds periodically, but for routine practice I try to find inexpensive practice ammo with similar PoA/PoI. Ideally, I also find some with similar recoil, but I am more concerned with PoI.
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Old December 6, 2011, 04:26 PM   #33
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I only shoot what I shoot, training or otherwise. Never mix em up so I get the exact results every shot.
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Old December 6, 2011, 05:13 PM   #34
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markj, if I tried to do that with DPX, I'd go broke. Either you have more ammo money, or you shoot less, doing it your way.

To each his own.

On a related note, just finished up annual recurrent training at SimuFlite. Using a simulator, we practiced takeoffs from high altitude runways in summer time (Aspen, CO) at max weight, with engine cuts at aircraft rotation. Was it exactly the same as it would be in an airplane? Possibly not, but the risk outweighs the training value if one cuts one of two engines, then tries to snake through the mountain canyons at a 110fpm rate of climb... IE we would never train for this in the airplane, as it would be too dangerous.

Similarly, we wouldn't practice overtorquing the motors, if need be, to climb out a severe windshear - it would be prohibitively expensive. So we simulate severe windshear recoveries in the simulator, where we may find we do have to overtorque the engines if we want to survive.

Theoretically, the training in the simulator should carry over to the aircraft. In practice, decades of simulator training have proven that most such training actually does carry over.

So, I put it to you all that affordable practice ammo, that reasonably mimics your carry load, has training value.

Last edited by MLeake; December 6, 2011 at 05:18 PM.
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Old December 6, 2011, 08:48 PM   #35
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Shooting high tech defensive rounds is just too pricey for me. I recently invested in a chronograph which better enables me to develop handloads that duplicate the velocity of Speer Gold Dot or Federal Hydra-shok, for example.
The Federal 230 grain Hydrashok clocks 833 FPS through my 4.5" S&W M&P.
6.5 grains of Unique gives me 832 FPS with a plated 230 grain round nose. I can shoot a bunch of my handloads for the cost of one of those Federal rounds.
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Old December 6, 2011, 09:24 PM   #36
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My FMJ 9mm is close in recoil to JHPs so I guess I practice every week with self-defense rounds!

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Old December 6, 2011, 09:24 PM   #37
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Once I have verified that it cycles fine in my SD firearm I shoot them every six months. Other than that I shoot my target ammo at the range (Federal, Magtech, and Winchester 9 mm) every two to three weeks. All my self defense rounds, both rifle and handguns are Honardy Taps and Critical defense.
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Old December 7, 2011, 07:31 AM   #38
Don P
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Quote:
Don -

I they are referring to the difference between typical WWB FMJs and SD HP loads which might be +P or +P+. Quite a difference depending on the gun.
I thought that but did not want to assume.

Quote:
I only shoot what I shoot, training or otherwise. Never mix em up so I get the exact results every shot.
Thats got to be super expensive
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Old December 7, 2011, 08:06 AM   #39
Ruark
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I wouldn't practice with my carry ammo, it's too expensive.

A second point to be made here is that in the crushing stress of a real life gunfight situation, you won't notice subtle details like how different kinds of ammo feel, trigger pull, etc. Your brain will shut down and you'll go on pure reflexes.
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Old December 7, 2011, 05:38 PM   #40
markj
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markj, if I tried to do that with DPX, I'd go broke.
I dont shoot them or any other high dollar SD round, them FMJ work just fine for me since I never had to actually use a CCW. I have tho killed many a varmint with that round and have full confidence in my abilities to ward off an attacker with these rounds.

Please dont "instruct" me, I know all about the HPs and the SD stuff. I do not wish to argue this with anyone. It is my way and I do not tell others it is the only way but for me it works just fine.

I carry .45 acp
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Old December 7, 2011, 09:15 PM   #41
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markj, I also typically carry .45acp. Not exactly sure what that bon mot was intended to mean...

But if you had simply said you only shoot FMJ under any circumstances, it would have avoided a lot of confusion.
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Old December 8, 2011, 01:39 PM   #42
markj
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Not exactly sure what that bon mot was intended to mean
Seems whenever I mention the fact I cary FMJ, I get a lot of "overpenetration, HP are the only thing" etc. It gets old so I put that in there to avoid a long drawn out discussion on what I need to carry in my own sd weapon.
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Old December 8, 2011, 07:42 PM   #43
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500 rds with no malfunctions for HP rounds. Then I train 4-5 times a week for 1-2 hours each. The key is to make sure your gun shoots the defensive rounds without issues.
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Old December 9, 2011, 04:34 AM   #44
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Then I train 4-5 times a week for 1-2 hours each.
Wow, that's a lot of shooting. Hope you reload, or you're talking significant ammo costs over time. Even then, it'll add up.
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Old December 9, 2011, 10:03 AM   #45
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To expensive for me to 'train' with it but I always check and see how it shoots. The difference is so marginal that the slight advantages you get from shooting 'the ammunition you would use in a fight' doesn't outweigh the cost of the ammunition itself.

However I'm sure there is some hardcore pro that would disagree and he would probably be right.
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Old December 9, 2011, 11:04 AM   #46
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When I go to the range I'll shoot 100 or 200 rounds of "range ammo" in center fire stuff.

I will always put at least one magazine or 2 cylinders of SD ammo through any CCW gun I have with me.

Point of impact can be different .

22's don't count in this routine

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Old December 9, 2011, 11:41 AM   #47
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I run a box to make sure it works in my gun, maybe 2 boxes thats it.
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Old December 9, 2011, 10:47 PM   #48
ltc444
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Autos shoot about the same regardless of the type bullet you are using.

Since I use FMJ for self defense and target in my 1911 and S&W 45 ACP revolver it doesn't make any difference.

I will take a lot of heat for this, but I use 115 grain HPs in my nine. My target ammo is 115 grain fmj.

In my 357 mag, my hunting reloads are a lot heavier and have more recoil than my self defense loads. My 38 spl target loads print about the same as my Hunting loads. I shoot about 20 rounds of my hunting loads a month. That seems to be enough to keep me in shape for the heavy loads.
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Old December 10, 2011, 01:59 PM   #49
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The guns I carry or keep at home for SD are always loaded with HPs ... when I go to the range I fire the ammo in the guns, then switch to FMJ ... after I get home and clean the guns, I reload with new HPs ... it's certainly true that most good factory HPs feel differently than FMJ training rounds, I like to be reminded of that fact every time I shoot ...
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Old December 20, 2011, 05:13 PM   #50
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I like to shoot 10-15 rounds of my defense stuff every other trip to the range so it will cycle it out every year. Shooting same grain, I don't notice much difference.
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