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Old December 3, 2011, 08:51 AM   #1
lockinload
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Shipping a hand gun from state to state

I want to send/give my daughter a gun for Xmas. It was purchased new by myself. Am I breaking any laws shipping her the gun? Colorado to California.
Walther PK380.
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Old December 3, 2011, 09:16 AM   #2
JimPage
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You definitely are breaking the law. It must go from and FFL in your state to an FFL in her state. She'll have to jump through any hoops the Californians have established for its subjects.
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Old December 3, 2011, 09:17 AM   #3
Fishing_Cabin
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A transfer of a firearm requires that the firearm be shiped to a FFL holder in that state your daughter lives in. She will have to go through the background check, etc and fill out the 4473 form. Not a huge deal.
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Old December 3, 2011, 09:29 AM   #4
lockinload
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So what if I gave it to her here and she drove home with it?
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Old December 3, 2011, 09:29 AM   #5
natman
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I think there are some Federal exemptions for direct transfers from parent to child, but I'm not going to look them up because you've got a different set of issues because your daughter is in CA.

She'll have to have a CA handgun license. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo.php

I'm pretty sure you can't send in a handgun that isn't on the CA approved list.
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

And you'd have to send it to a CA FFL. Shop around, FFL fees in CA are steep.

You would probably be better off arranging to have a CA FFL order a gun that is on the CA list and having her pick it up there, saving you handgun shipping, which is expensive, and FFL fees.

Good luck.
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Old December 3, 2011, 09:35 AM   #6
lockinload
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I am so glad I left that state when I did.
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Old December 3, 2011, 09:46 AM   #7
lockinload
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Thanks for the info gentleman.
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Old December 3, 2011, 10:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
I think there are some Federal exemptions for direct transfers from parent to child
There are no such exceptions.

The only real exception is that if you bequest a gun the receiver can come ad get it from the executor of the estate.

But since you are not dead it is not a bequest.

You need to find an FFL in her state to accept the gun and then transfer it to her.
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Old December 3, 2011, 11:23 AM   #9
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickeyee
There are no such exceptions.

The only real exception is that if you bequest a gun the receiver can come ad get it from the executor of the estate.

But since you are not dead it is not a bequest.

You need to find an FFL in her state to accept the gun and then transfer it to her.
Just keep in mind that, by shipping it or handing it directly to her, YOU are breaking Federal (as well as possibly state) law. If she accepts delivery, or takes the hand-off in person, then SHE is also breaking Federal law. Which turns a well-intended gift into TWO felonies.
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Old December 3, 2011, 11:34 AM   #10
Don H
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brickeye is correct - there is no federal exemption for interstate transfers with family members. A handgun must be transferred to your daughter by a FFL in her state of residence. There is no federal requirement that you must have a FFL in your state ship it to a FFL in her state of residence- some states require it (I don't believe either CO or CA is one of them) and some FFLs have a policy to only accept firearms from another FFL since many times a non-FFL sends the firearm with insufficient information for the FFL to log it into his bound book (a distinct problem), but there are no federal legalities preventing you personally from shipping it to a CA FFL.

A long gun can be transferred to your daughter by a FFL in Colorado. Verify that it is not an "assault weapon" under CA law.

You cannot legally just give it to her when she's visiting you and she cannot legally transport it home to her state without a transfer through a FFL.

18 USC 922 - http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922 - is the controlling federal statute. You and/or she will have to research the CA laws regarding the importation into the state of the particular handgun or long gun you have in mind - http://www.calguns.net/ is a valuable resource in this regard.

The legalities and carrier policies of shipping a firearm to another state is a subject unto itself.
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Old December 3, 2011, 12:17 PM   #11
Aguila Blanca
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This same question was recently discussed in another thread: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469204
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Old December 3, 2011, 09:35 PM   #12
Frank Ettin
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[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL.

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. (In the case of a handgun being transferred to a transferee in California, the handgun must generally be on the California roster of handguns approved for sale. BUT there's an exception under California law for an intrafamilial transfer. The rub is that some California FFLs don't understand how that works. The transferee will need to find a California FFL who understands this. A letter should accompany the gun when sent to the FFL for transfer identifying the relationship between the transferor and transferee, noting the serial number of the gun and that it's a gift. Calguns.net is a good resource for more detailed information.)

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer is in compliance with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complied with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockinload
...So what if I gave it to her here and she drove home with it?...
You would be committing a federal felony by violating 18 USC 922(a)(5), and your daughter would be committing a federal felony by violating 18 USC 922(a)(3).

Quote:
Originally Posted by lockinload
...I am so glad I left that state when I did....
Actually, the major complications are a result of federal law, not California law. If you were still a resident of California, since your daughter is a resident of California, you could just hand her the gun; and she would simply need to file a form with the California DOJ. But since this is a transaction involving residents of two different States, federal law makes things much more complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natman
I think there are some Federal exemptions for direct transfers from parent to child,...
No! There is no is not such exemption under federal law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natman
...I'm pretty sure you can't send in a handgun that isn't on the CA approved list...
A parent to child transfer is exempt from the roster. The trick is finding a California transfer FFL who understands this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don H
...A long gun can be transferred to your daughter by a FFL in Colorado. Verify that it is not an "assault weapon" under CA law...
No, not if the transferee is a resident of California. Federal law (18 USC 922(b)(3)) requires that the transfer comply with the laws of both the State in which the transfer takes place and the State in which the transferee lives. As a practical matter, the transfer laws of California are such that the Colorado FFL would not be able to satisfy them.
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Old December 5, 2011, 11:20 AM   #13
EOD Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natman
I think there are some Federal exemptions for direct transfers from parent to child, but I'm not going to look them up because you've got a different set of issues because your daughter is in CA.

She'll have to have a CA handgun license. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo.php

I'm pretty sure you can't send in a handgun that isn't on the CA approved list.
http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/

And you'd have to send it to a CA FFL. Shop around, FFL fees in CA are steep.

You would probably be better off arranging to have a CA FFL order a gun that is on the CA list and having her pick it up there, saving you handgun shipping, which is expensive, and FFL fees.

Good luck.
There is no such thing as a California handgun license.

Parent to child transfers are exempt from the Handgun Safety Roster. Be sure that the receiving FFL knows that it is a parent to child gift.
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Old December 5, 2011, 12:18 PM   #14
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD Guy
Quote:
Originally Posted by natman

....She'll have to have a CA handgun license. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo.php....
....There is no such thing as a California handgun license...
As shown by the link that natman provided, he was referring to the California Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) as a handgun license. For the purposes of this thread it's pretty much a waste of time to debate whether the HSC may be properly referred to as a "license."

What is important, however, is that whatever you choose to call the HSC, the daughter will have to have one to take possession of the handgun. They're easy enough to get, but under California law she will still need to take the test, pay the fee and get the HSC before she can lawfully receive the handgun.
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Old December 6, 2011, 04:13 AM   #15
natman
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Point A: I should have known better than to even mention a regulation in passing unless I had thoroughly researched it. There's some regulation somewhere that allows or allowed some special treatment when transferring a firearm from grandfather/father - child, but I didn't remember exactly where it applied. Possibly it's the apparent exemption to the Approved Handgun List. Mea Culpa.

Point B: You have to pass a test and pay a fee to get a California Handgun Safety Certificate. You can't get a handgun in CA without one. Quibbling over whether or not that's a "license" is hair splitting.
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