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Old December 2, 2011, 03:22 PM   #26
turbotype87
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Crazy

I thought i would never have seen this coming in my lifetime. This is the most AntiAmerican Government i have ever seen. Our elected goverment officials were sworn to uphold the US Constitution, that being said We the people need to, '' PREPARE'', for the worst.
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Old December 2, 2011, 04:38 PM   #27
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Believe it or not, it was almost much worse:

Quote:
Although the fact that indefinite detention without trial has now been codified into law by way of Section 1031 of the National Defense Authorization Act, an attempt was made at the last minute to fast-track an even more horrifying amendment into the NDAA bill via a voice vote.
Amendment No. 1274 would have given the federal government the power to detain U.S. citizens until Congress declared the ‘war on terror’ over, which we have been told is a never-ending multi-generational conflict. The provision also gave the feds the power to keep an American incarcerated even if they were tried and found not guilty.
Thankfully, Republican Senator Rand Paul discovered the provision and was able to request a last ditch roll call vote. The amendment was eventually defeated by a worryingly narrow final vote of 41-59.
http://www.infowars.com/senate-bill-...ound-innocent/
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Old December 2, 2011, 04:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotype87
We the people need to, '' PREPARE'', for the worst.
"We the people" are our own worst enemies up to this point in time. Complacency, apathy, the re-writing of history and redefining of constitutional ideals have led us down this path. The solution is simple. When an elected official espouses views and supports or puts forth laws which are unconstitutional, "we the people" should be voting them out of office. We need to teach our children and each other the original meaning of the constitution, the intent behind it, the purpose of our government and the ideals of the founders.

Until that happens, we're doomed.
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Old December 2, 2011, 05:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
"We the people" are our own worst enemies up to this point in time. Complacency, apathy, the re-writing of history and redefining of constitutional ideals have led us down this path. The solution is simple. When an elected official espouses views and supports or puts forth laws which are unconstitutional, "we the people" should be voting them out of office. We need to teach our children and each other the original meaning of the constitution, the intent behind it, the purpose of our government and the ideals of the founders.
True that!! And push for repeal of the 17th Amendment, I would add.
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Old December 2, 2011, 07:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
"We the people" are our own worst enemies up to this point in time. Complacency, apathy, the re-writing of history and redefining of constitutional ideals have led us down this path. The solution is simple. When an elected official espouses views and supports or puts forth laws which are unconstitutional, "we the people" should be voting them out of office. We need to teach our children and each other the original meaning of the constitution, the intent behind it, the purpose of our government and the ideals of the founders.

Until that happens, we're doomed.
Election time is coming and we the people need to vote out 536 clowns in the area known as DC or as many incumbents this time around and the vote the balance out next cycle time around
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Old December 2, 2011, 07:57 PM   #31
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Is there a dedicated website that shows the voting records of congressmen?
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Old December 2, 2011, 08:00 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy88Fingers
Is there a dedicated website that shows the voting records of congressmen?
Several, here is just one example...

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/112/

(No warranty as to it's accuracy or lack of bias)
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Old December 2, 2011, 09:41 PM   #33
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I don't even have to look to know how my senators and my congresscritter voted ...
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Old December 2, 2011, 10:20 PM   #34
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Despite wide spread weird media accounts that is not what was written in the bill. The wording was the same as it has been for the past five years with an exemption for US citizens.
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Old December 4, 2011, 10:38 AM   #35
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I hear a lot about how bad things are today... and I agree. But any assertions about this time being bad in unprecedented ways are more alarmist than helpful, IMHO... just look at the Alien and Sedition Acts, way back in 1798, when the authors of the Constitution were still in office.

Politics suck, and National Politics suck absolutely.
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Old December 4, 2011, 01:13 PM   #36
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Although i see this in the bill:
Quote:
(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
it does creep me out that potential AL-Quaida (however you spell that) agents detained in the U.S. are going to be put under military control. I think this country has functioned pretty well for the past 2 centuries with out a national police force. I don't know where this plan is headed, but it doesn't seem to be a positive development.
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Old December 4, 2011, 02:10 PM   #37
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it does creep me out that potential AL-Quaida (however you spell that) agents detained in the U.S. are going to be put under military control. I think this country has functioned pretty well for the past 2 centuries with out a national police force. I don't know where this plan is headed, but it doesn't seem to be a positive development.
For nearly a hundred years most places had NO police force at all.

The military has functioned as an enforcer of (and violator of) civil rights and various laws in the entirety of the history of the US. You would be hard pressed to point to a period in US history where the US military was NOT used in the police role. Detainees have been famous and infamous.
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Last edited by MTT TL; December 4, 2011 at 02:16 PM.
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Old December 4, 2011, 02:55 PM   #38
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Quote:
See what Paul Craig Roberts had to say -
I believe that your internal filter failed you. That was just a might bit partisan politics.
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Old December 4, 2011, 04:39 PM   #39
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Should I also mention that it was a Drive-by post?

Deleted for both reasons.
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Old December 4, 2011, 05:19 PM   #40
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For once Obama has indicated he will veto this bill. Isn't this in direct contradiction to the Constitution????? McCain should have been thrown out long ago. These morons in DC have got to go in the next election. I read an article that only 7 of them voted against it.
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Old December 4, 2011, 06:40 PM   #41
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You would be hard pressed to point to a period in US history where the US military was NOT used in the police role.
I"m not counting when states were territories, but, if you are, I concede this point.

And yes, history has many episodes in which the US Military has been used to enforce laws/executive orders that were "less than ideal."

My point was that incarceration seems to be a new full-time facet of the military's job description for which our military really wasn't designed and that they appear to be edging toward the roll of full time policeman.
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Old December 5, 2011, 09:41 AM   #42
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Even my mother who leans liberal thinks the government is out of control.

Congress needs to remember that they have their jobs at the SUFFERANCE of the people, not through any intrinsic right.
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Old December 5, 2011, 02:42 PM   #43
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And as long as the people keep reelecting the same idjuts persons to congress, they can only think they are doing a swell job.

So tell me why they should change what they are doing?
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Old December 5, 2011, 03:21 PM   #44
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I don't think the country is out of control, although if I were allowed to vote for some of them, instead of just three, I might have a little more satisfaction, if not more results. But whoever thinks reducing the payroll tax is somehow helping the social security problem needs to rethink his position, if nothing else.
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Old December 5, 2011, 03:33 PM   #45
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The problem is these reelected congressmen and senators are getting voted in by the same districts over and over. They KNOW who their base in these districts are and what appeals to them. In gun friend areas, gun friendly officials are elected.

Gun rights isn't the number one priority for a lot of voters even if they believe in the 2nd amendment. They'll always vote for the guy who is supporting what is most important to them, just like everyone here will.
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Old December 5, 2011, 03:42 PM   #46
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The problem is that "We the People" have permitted our Federal Gov't to grow entirely too large. The issue is simply one of power and that legislation is of a sort that would cause our founders to roll over in their graves..........I, for one, am goddamned sad to say that I once voted for McCain, I am ashamed of that man, obviously he has utterly no concept of what this nation was supposed to be.

As a police retiree and former soldier I recall swearing an oath to "support and defend" the Constitution............. not this goddamned excuse for a Government we now endure.
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Old December 6, 2011, 06:59 AM   #47
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No offense intended but we the people do not all share the same concept of what this nation is supposed to be. Never did.
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Old December 6, 2011, 11:10 AM   #48
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Quote:
No offense intended but we the people do not all share the same concept of what this nation is supposed to be. Never did.
If the Constitution is strictly adhered to, it's hard to stray too far off course.
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Old December 6, 2011, 11:50 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTrain
No offense intended but we the people do not all share the same concept of what this nation is supposed to be. Never did.
Really shouldn't matter. The COTUS is what it is and says what it says. We only run into problems when we decide we don't like something and would like it reinterpreted.

For instance, slavery should have been illegal from the get-go. Many of the founders wanted the nation formed without slavery but knew/concluded that forming a national government with an outright ban on slavery would be impossible. They figured it would work itself out. I doubt they expected a civil war, but they were right, it did work itself out.

The words they chose, regardless of slavery, were correct from the Declaration of Independence to the implications of the Preamble "All men (human-kind) are created equal, endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights..." "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,...."

The problem is that we allow people to reinterpret and place meaning where there was none and no intent ever existed. The First Amendment, for example:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Somehow, we came to a place where a direct and unambiguous prohibition against congress establishing a state religion became a prohibition against a white cross placed by private citizens to memorialize a deceased person or against a principal participating in prayer meetings at school, even against kids wearing t-shirts with crosses on them. (and yes, such nonsense has been used to restrict "non-christian" religions as well, and it's equally unconstitutional)

Even if we accept, "Incorporation", we would have the meaning the STATE governments may not establish a state religion. This still has no applicability to a monument of the 10 commandments in a court house or a principal praying at school.

Original meaning and intent. "Congress".... Shall make no "law"....

What we have today is not a matter of "interpretation", it's a fundamental alteration of intent. It is an attempt to change our nation into something that it is not and was not, into something that the COTUS was designed to prevent.

Changes (amendments) and laws are intended to clarify and reinforce, not alter the meaning of constitutional principles. Today, and I suppose there have always existed some, there are far to many with the intent to ALTER our nation, not preserve it.
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Old December 6, 2011, 12:06 PM   #50
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One thing the senate bill DID do was eliminate bestiality and sodomy as crimes for service members. This was as part of the legalization of homosexuality in the military.

Having sodomy illegal has been a running joke for as long as I can remember. I am not so sure about bestiality. Seems akin to animal abuse to me and should probably still be illegal. I didn't write the law however.

http://thenewamerican.com/culture/fa...ty-in-military
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