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Old November 28, 2011, 01:59 AM   #1
hogdogs
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Dog/'Yote Hybrids... How?

Here is how I feel about the whole thing...

First off, there will be more yote sires to dog gyps. Especially an alpha male... He will just slip over a fence and visit the heating gyp while out huntin' etc.

These can be of any look and may not be recognized as coy dogs if they look more like momma. The humans will care for them no matter how ugly.

For a coydog hybrid to occur in the pack is going to require a 'yote gyp and a dog sire. How could this happen? Well easy really, you get a mangy free roaming or even feral stud and he zeros in on the heating sub-class 'yote while the alpha and first string hunters are out working...

If this gyp has pups and she has the position in the pack to back it up, she will be allowed to have and keep them and will even be utilized as an extra milk supply for pups of alpha gyps.

If her pups manage to grow up as a functioning part of the pack, their genetics may get to spread from there.

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Old November 28, 2011, 09:30 AM   #2
L_Killkenny
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I don't buy it, never have. First, I've seen reports, none recently, that indicate that a breeding between them is impossible. Second, in 30 years of chasing predators I've never seen with my own eyes or out of a few 100,000 pictures a cross. Out of about a million free roaming farm dogs here in Iowa I've never heard of anyone witnessing even an attempt at breeding yet alone a successful one.

I've seen big coyotes, small coyotes, black coyotes, pale coyotes, etc but every one of them was all coyote. I've seen pictures of dogs claimed to be coydogs that were obviously dogs, I've seen pictures of coyotes claimed to be coydogs where they are obviously coyotes. No one has ever produced a confirmed reliable test. Even if I'm wrong and it does occur than it's SO RARE that to make zero difference on the coyote population or on our lives. We're talkin one out of a billion kinda rare. With the number of coyotes and the numbers of dogs it wouldn't be that rare if possible.

LK

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Old November 28, 2011, 09:37 AM   #3
Brian Pfleuger
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All I know is that "officially" (in NY at least) there is virtually no such thing as a "coy-dog". It has happened but it is rare. We have three animal types that most people here universally refer to as "coy-dog". They are, Wild Dogs, Pure Coyote and Coyote Wolf hybrids.

Wild dogs are not too common but I have seen a few.

Pure coyotes are "native" and pretty common.

Coyote-Wolf hybrids are a real problem. They are spreading from the west and are larger and more aggressive than "normal" coyotes. They are EXTREMELY detrimental to the fawn population.
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Old November 28, 2011, 09:50 AM   #4
Rifleman1776
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I believe coyXdogs are possible. I have seen several that were possible crosses. I once killed what certainly had to be a coyXdog. I don't know what kind of proof is necessary for non-believers. But, for me, there is enough proof running around that I will kill every free running canine I can. X or not free running dogs do go feral and cause considerable damage. Ask me about my three dead purebred registered cattle killed by a neighbors "pet" dog.
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Old November 28, 2011, 10:22 AM   #5
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I know for a fact thats its possible and have seen it happen.

My brother had a couple coyote pups for a while. He turned one loose and gave one of them to a rancher. I dont remember if it was a male or female. It wasnt tame enough to pet, but enough to hang around and work cows with. Thats something you wont see too often!

Anyway, it bred with his border collies a couple times. As far as I know, they still have some cross pups over there.

I dont know how much this happens in the wild, tho I'm sure it does in certain places. But as for the so called authorities that say it cant happen, they are 100% dead wrong. Its probly the same yahoo idiots that say mulies and whitetails cant breed.
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Old November 28, 2011, 10:37 AM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
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I don't think anyone denies that it's "possible".
What it is, is almost impossible to confirm on wild animals without DNA testing. If it looks dog its probably wild dog. If it doesn't, it probably is and always was coyote. It is also rare and unlikely to result in survival of off-spring due to mating seasons and birth timing.
Even if the off-spring survive, you're talking one generation with dwindling "domestic" influence in successive generations.... and off-spring with genetic qualities that are NOT conducive to survival (the mating season again).
Yes, they exist.
Yes, most "coy-dogs" are either wild dogs, pure coyote or coyote-wolf hybrids. No, most people don't know or care the difference.
Yes, most people (around here) refer to them universally as "coy-dogs", which perpetuates the "myth" since most people never check the facts.

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Old November 28, 2011, 11:17 AM   #7
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Peetza, In my area we have only a suspected "possible" small number of red wolves for them to cross with.

We do have a snot load of loose dogs in this rural redneck farming and hunting community (community being nearly the entire fla panhandle).

I also know of a hog dogger who heard a commotion on his dog yard and found his jealous studs yapping at a coyote who was locked knot deep in his best curr dog gyp.

Some of the pups couldn't really even be called "dog like" in appearance.

One of these was kept and made first string hog dog...

Was a real trip to see him posed with a catch and what appears to be a real coyote sitting at his side with masters arm around his neck...

Brent
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Old November 28, 2011, 11:58 AM   #8
Brian Pfleuger
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I don't doubt you. Different places will have different situations but I'd bet it's a lot more rare in the wild than most "locals" believe.

People around here, until recently, referred to any dog-like wild animal as a "coy-dog". Now days, many are starting to realize that they are in fact just coyotes or, at worst, coy-wolf hybrids.

In all my years, I've seen wild dogs that were unmistakably one-time domestic, now a couple/few generations wild, and coyotes, that were unmistakably NOT closely related to, certainly in no way close to first generation coy-dog hybrids. Light colored, dark colored, solid and mottled and everything in-between, but clearly coyote.
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Old November 28, 2011, 12:06 PM   #9
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We, in my circles of acquaintance, only refer to a dog as a "coydog" if it has obvious physical traits similar to coyotes...

Other wise we call it a yote or a wild dog with both having equal regard to pred hunters... no one takes pics of the dead wild dogs is all...

Brent
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Old November 28, 2011, 12:29 PM   #10
rickyrick
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I personally caught a coyote in with my bitches in the middle of town.

My whole life any lanky looking wild dogs roaming rural areas were referred to as coydogs. This may have just been mis-labeling of feral dogs. But it was always understood that some existed...

This forum was the first that I had heard of them not existing. I looked it up and it seems thier existence is denied by numerous sources.

I have heard coyote and dog vocalizations originating from the same spots at night although I don't know the nature of the interactions
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Old November 28, 2011, 01:00 PM   #11
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not sure on coy dogs, but I did meet a guy once, who had a malamute/wolf hybrid. Very friendly dog, but the guy who had him was huge, the dog was on a massive leash, and he was easily 150 lbs, and taller than any dog I have ever seen, except for scottish wolfhounds or great danes. he was very intimidating, and no other dog at the park even came near this dog, to try and play with it!!!
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Old November 28, 2011, 03:21 PM   #12
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I had a coyote problem here a couple of years ago. This bunch were snatching chickens out of the yard in broad daylight, 50 feet from the house. At the same time we had a road dog bitch that had been hanging around. A mixed breed Blue Heeler she kept her distance and wasn’t causing any problems, so I thought.

Some time after wiping out this coyote problem I noticed that she was running thru the fields with a litter of pups that looked like coyotes. Ah ha, coydogs! No wonder they were so brazen in the daytime, they were half dog.

At bit more hunting a I killed all of them, the bitch too. The pups were no doubt coyote/ dog crosses, but looked more like coyotes than dogs, nothing like the bitch. This ended the chicken killing. So far no problems in the last year. The bitch must have been churning them out a couple of times a year.
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Old November 28, 2011, 04:15 PM   #13
AirborneMosinFan
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I want to kill one so bad

I've been told by many of the experience hunters in my area of nc that they have never seen or heard of one.
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Old November 28, 2011, 04:23 PM   #14
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In the twenty-eight years I've lived in Terlingua, I've known of only two litters of pups where it was known that a male coyote had mated with a bitch dog in heat. Few of the local dogs are ever restrained, and for sure we have plenty of coyotes. Seems obvious to me that crosses are very rare events...
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Old November 28, 2011, 07:25 PM   #15
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I don't know of a coy dog cross but I do know of a stray bitch that hangs with the local pack. She is a Shepard Malamute mix. Don't know if she has had pups within the pack.
From my reading of coyotes, they are a mix to begin with, dog and wolf are mixed in and identifiable in the dna.
It looks to me the Coyotes are the "survivor" of the predator world. They do what it takes, grow larger, smaller, hide or become aggressive as their environment dictates. To do this I would imagine Coyotes spread their seed wide.
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Old November 29, 2011, 11:51 AM   #16
rickyrick
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After this thread I've been eyeballing some of the characters that I have living with me, cause a couple have an unknown father. LOL

Regardless of the origin, my dogs are democrats.
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Old November 29, 2011, 02:32 PM   #17
hogdogs
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I agree that the out crosses are rare. As evidenced by the few taken or seen.

But if you get a single gyp with some dog traits and everytime she gets bred you spit the traits into the pack.

In an ideal pack, only the dominate gyp and her chosen few will breed but the sub gyps do get bred often while out huntin' or back at the hangout area by yotes that ain't supposed to be breedin' either...

Brent
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Old November 29, 2011, 03:50 PM   #18
tahunua001
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Quote:
I don't buy it, never have. First, I've seen reports, none recently, that indicate that a breeding between them is impossible. Second, in 30 years of chasing predators I've never seen with my own eyes or out of a few 100,000 pictures a cross. Out of about a million free roaming farm dogs here in Iowa I've never heard of anyone witnessing even an attempt at breeding yet alone a successful one.

I've seen big coyotes, small coyotes, black coyotes, pale coyotes, etc but every one of them was all coyote. I've seen pictures of dogs claimed to be coydogs that were obviously dogs, I've seen pictures of coyotes claimed to be coydogs where they are obviously coyotes. No one has ever produced a confirmed reliable test. Even if I'm wrong and it does occur than it's SO RARE that to make zero difference on the coyote population or on our lives. We're talkin one out of a billion kinda rare. With the number of coyotes and the numbers of dogs it wouldn't be that rare if possible.
now this is just complete nonsense. in 1992 wolves and dogs were no longer considered separate species because it was widely recognised that not only are they able to interbreed but the offspring are also able to continue the breed, IE no genetic deformation and not sterile. a coyote is closer to a dog than a wolf, why is that so much harder to think about.

here is a link to a sizable write up on coydogs as a breed(with pictures)
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/coydog.htm

here is the link to a site for a dog breeder that specialises in coyote/dog hybrids. it has a slideshow with dozens of pics of animals that I would mistake for a full coyote if I saw it out in the field.
http://www.coydog.us/

living on an indian reservation for my entire life has produced a little perspective on the matter. a lot of native americans own dogs, these dogs are usually guard dogs of your usual suspect breeds, bull mastiff, pit bull, doberman, german sheperd and rottweiler. these dogs usually live in the yard and aren't caged, kenneled or even chained but rather allowed to roam town freely. these free roaming dogs which are rarely fixed have created a very nasty variety of mutt that we just call REZ MUTTS. in my early teens I was walking with my brother in law and 3 year old niece when we saw a sizable pack of these rez mutt roaming town, we stopped and hoped the dogs would continue on..the longer we waited the more obvious it came that at least half that pack was coyotes...
they can inter breed
they will adopt and even assimilate with domestic dogs
hog dogs is 100% correct.
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Old November 30, 2011, 06:44 PM   #19
rickyrick
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Looks like the tail and the ears are characteristics that are retained as recognizable as coyote
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Old November 30, 2011, 08:19 PM   #20
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Can coydogs breed true, or are they sports like mules?
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Old December 1, 2011, 10:19 AM   #21
tahunua001
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coydogs are able to breed. the difference between a coyote and a labrador is less than the difference between a german sheperd and a dachshund.
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