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Old November 25, 2011, 10:00 PM   #1
bullets22
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nj denial, will it affect possession in other states?

Hi all,
I was considering applying for a nj FID card (firearms identification card). I have been shooting and hunting before, but I can only go with pople that have this card If i am denied, do you think it will affect me buying a gun in another state? I am thinking of moving to colorado in a couple years if possible. Will colorado ever ask me on a nics form or state form if I was ever denied from getting a firearm?
Thanks for the Help!
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Old November 25, 2011, 10:27 PM   #2
Sport45
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Welcome to The Firing Line!

To answer your question I suppose it depends on the reason for denial. Do you expect to be denied?
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Old November 26, 2011, 01:21 AM   #3
divil
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Quote:
Hi all,
I was considering applying for a nj FID card (firearms identification card). I have been shooting and hunting before, but I can only go with pople that have this card If i am denied, do you think it will effect me buying a gun in another state?
I have never heard of any state taking into account whether or not you were denied in another state. Usually it's based on your record with courts and police - i.e. if you've been arrested, convicted, had certain kinds of court ruling issues against you etc etc.

Quote:
I am thinking of moving to colorado in a couple years if possible. Will colorado ever ask me on a nics form or state form if I was ever denied from getting a firearm?
Not on a NICS form anyway, that's for sure. Since the vast majority of states don't use anything but the NICS form, I think you'll be fine. If you do a federal NICS check today, and you are denied, and then do another one tomorrow, no one will know you were denied the day before.

That said, it is your responsibility to know if you are legal to buy the gun or not. If you're not, but by some fluke you happen to pass the NICS check, you'd still be breaking the law by taking the gun home. Very unlikely scenario however.
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Old November 26, 2011, 08:01 AM   #4
bullets22
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I should of been more specific. I was never arrested. In fact, I worked as a subsitute teacher in NJ and passed the back ground check fine. However, If you have ever seen a psychologist in NJ, That is a perfect reason to be denied. I have never been to a mental instituion voluntarily or involuntarily.
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Old November 26, 2011, 04:47 PM   #5
silentargus
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Disclaimer: this poster is not a lawyer.

The NJ FOID is a state issued ID. It carries no weight and represents no authority in any state other than NJ. You won't have had your right to own firearms revoked if you're denied- the state of NJ will merely have refused to issue you a form of identification. It should have no bearing on your future ability to purchase and own firearms in other states.

One exception- If you are a NJ resident and show an NJ driver's license when you buy a gun at a store in another state, they may ask to see your NJ FOID. If you don't have one, they may refuse the sale. That wouldn't affect you past that sale on that day; they'd only be refusing you to avoid potential liability.

Now... whether or not the state will find some technicality to deny your FOID application, I can't say. I've had difficulty with handgun permit applications for the horrible offense of being unemployed, so it's entirely possible they'd try to bust your kneecaps over visiting a psychologist. Depending on who's processing the application, I wouldn't put it past them to deny you for having had the flu.

Kidding aside, there is nothing in the law which states you can't be issued an FOID because you've been to a few therapy sessions. My inclination is to believe you'll be just fine. Best of luck on your application.
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Old November 26, 2011, 05:15 PM   #6
dogtown tom
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Quote:
divil ...If you do a federal NICS check today, and you are denied, and then do another one tomorrow, no one will know you were denied the day before.
Yes they will.
FBI NICS keeps keeps a permanent record of all "Denied" transactions. "Delayed" transactions are saved until they become a "Proceed" in which case the information from that check would be deleted at the close of the NICS business day. If the "Delayed" status is eventually changed to "Denied", the FBI will keep the information on file.
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Old November 26, 2011, 06:53 PM   #7
divil
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Yes they will.
FBI NICS keeps keeps a permanent record of all "Denied" transactions. "Delayed" transactions are saved until they become a "Proceed" in which case the information from that check would be deleted at the close of the NICS business day. If the "Delayed" status is eventually changed to "Denied", the FBI will keep the information on file.
My mistake. Do you know if the denial records will have any affect on future background checks? The reason I thought it did not is because I was once denied, but have subsequently passed many NICS checks. I usually get delayed though...maybe that is because they find the denial record and want to investigate.
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Old November 26, 2011, 11:03 PM   #8
dogtown tom
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divil
Quote:
Quote:
Yes they will.
FBI NICS keeps keeps a permanent record of all "Denied" transactions. "Delayed" transactions are saved until they become a "Proceed" in which case the information from that check would be deleted at the close of the NICS business day. If the "Delayed" status is eventually changed to "Denied", the FBI will keep the information on file.
My mistake. Do you know if the denial records will have any affect on future background checks? The reason I thought it did not is because I was once denied, but have subsequently passed many NICS checks. I usually get delayed though...maybe that is because they find the denial record and want to investigate.
If you were denied yesterday, it is quite likely you would be denied today, tomorrow and next week. Next month might be different....the records the FBI uses to run their background checks are updated as states report new information.

If you ever get denied you need to find out why. While some denials are the result of identity issues.....if you do have something in your personal history that is causing the denial you are probably committing a felony by attempting to purchase a firearm.
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Old November 27, 2011, 01:03 AM   #9
divil
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if you do have something in your personal history that is causing the denial you are probably committing a felony by attempting to purchase a firearm.
Well I don't know of any law that makes it a crime to try to attempt to buy a firearm. But given the diversity of state law throughout the country, I suppose anything is possible. In my case, I was denied even though I was perfectly legal at the time. I appealed, and they provided their reason for the denial, and invited me to prove otherwise. I complained by email but did not offer any proof. The next time I tried I was successful.

Quote:
If you ever get denied you need to find out why
That is very true. The NICS agency sends a letter by default when you're denied - you should not have to do anything other than wait. But as for state background checks, I don't know how it works.

The thing to remember is, a denial does not necessarily mean you can not legally own a gun, and an approval does not necessarily mean you can. It's your responsibility to know.
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Old November 27, 2011, 07:54 AM   #10
dogtown tom
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divil
Quote:
Quote:
if you do have something in your personal history that is causing the denial you are probably committing a felony by attempting to purchase a firearm.
Well I don't know of any law that makes it a crime to try to attempt to buy a firearm.
Federal law prohibits "prohibited persons" from acquiring ar attempting to acquire a firearm. Before the dealer calls NICS the buyer must complete the Form 4473. If the buyer lies on any of prohibiting criteria he commits perjury.



Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If you ever get denied you need to find out why
...The NICS agency sends a letter by default when you're denied - you should not have to do anything other than wait...
The FBI will only send the buyer the reason for the NICS denial if the buyer requests it in writing via fax, email or regular mail. NICS will not even tell the dealer the reason.
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Old November 27, 2011, 12:44 PM   #11
divil
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Oops...you are right. My memory sucks. I will stop giving advice now
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